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All Members READ This -- Warning about WTB Responses

Forum Boss

Forum Boss

Administrator
I want you guys to take this VERY seriously.
Read This Twice and Remember!

First, if someone, ANY one, answers your WTB ad, start with the presumption that he is trying to rip you off if the person is not a Silver or Gold member.

We are seeing a new trend.
Some scammers will respond to WTB listings. They have some knowledge of guns and optics and may seem legit. But they often will direct you to a third party. BEWARE, this is almost certainly a scam.

Now READ this carefully.

NEVER EVER do any deal with ANY member who directs you to a third party.
I also believe you are much, much safer if you do NOT respond to anyone who is NOT a Silver or Gold member.

-- Foreign Scammers with Domestic Accomplices
We investigated two recent examples of the WTB scam. In both cases the original account signup appeared to be a real email based in the USA not using a VPN. After that we saw VPN use, and sometimes a direct connection to an African country.

From this we believe the scammers have accomplices here in the USA. We DO background check all new signups, but the scammers may start with a legit IP address in the USA, and are impersonating real people in a city/state.

For ANY Sale you Must ALWAYS insist on security. Folks, that means VOICE calls, Custom photos, and background checking.

Follow these precautions for ALL deals.

1. NEVER EVER do a deal without a VOICE phone call. Do NOT rely on text, or PM, or email. Pick up the phone, dial the number, TALK to the seller with your voice. If it is a scammer you should recognize the accent, or the call will often be bounced to another number, which is a red flag.

2. NEVER EVER do a deal without CUSTOM Photos. The scammers can grab images off the web in seconds. Demand a custom photo with a different object in the picture in a different location. For example, if the guy is selling a scope, tell him to wrap a rope around the scope, place the scope on the dashboard of his vehicle for the new photo (or some other custom set-up). Scammers cannot do that.

3. Be wary of any seller who will only take PayPal Friends & Family. It is 100% against Forum rules to use F&F here for sales. And if the guy demands CashApp or Bitcoin, tell him to shove it. Zelle can be risky too.

4. I recommend that purchasers be very wary of member sellers who have not upgraded. The process of upgrading at least creates one traceable link to a valid checking account or credit card. That helps us help you if the situation goes bad.

A Silver membership works out to just $2.08/mo. If a guy is selling a $3500.00 rifle and hasn't upgraded, that tells you a lot.

------------------

We are considering prohibiting any response to WTB ads by non-upgraded members.

Again, to protect yourself, it is wise to be suspicious of ANY person responding to a WTB listing who is not a Silver or Gold member. Even with upgraded members, always ask for custom photos, and check the seller's trader history.

Remember that, even with all the security measures in place, an account can be hacked. This happened to one Gold Member who installed a password manager on his phone -- that App was hacked and ALL his passwords were stolen, including bank/CC account passwords. I recommend you keep passwords via hard copy, and never ever use the same PW for multiple accoounts. If you have a password file on your computer, encrypt it.
 
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Excellent advice. I have hundreds of transactions on this forum, another forum, eBay and gunbroker. I have never got burned until last year when I got burned on a WTB ad for a Thompson contender I had placed. If I would have followed the directions given I wouldn’t have lost 500+ dollars. The scammer provided a legitimate DL, the DL was linked to an active FFL, he also provided a copy of his concealed carry permit, it all seemed very legit, all of that information was stolen. I stopped at that point thinking I was safe. I didn’t have a phone call, I didn’t ask for custom pictures and I paid in a way that made me vulnerable. This is my only transaction that went south, the only time I’ve been burned out of 1000+ transactions. I’d heed the advice given if you want to give yourself the best protection against fraud if you post a WTB. I wish I would have.

I talked to the FFL holder whose DL and copy of his FFL was used. Super nice guy, he had given that information out multiple times for his own transactions, someone obviously got a hold of it and pretended to be him. He was sympathetic but there wasn’t anything he could do, not his fault, it was my fault for doing a half ass job of verifying.

I do think a gold or silver membership helps verify legitimacy.
 
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Why the distinction with WTB vs WTS ?
I’m missing something here.
Can’t you get burnt either way?

Forum Boss: Yes you can still get burned on a regular For Sale listing, but a For Sale lister has to provide a product description, answer questions, post photos. We can trace the photos. People can also instantly click for trader history. Also, if the lister says "buy from a third party", the thread will be removed, the member will be banned, and his IP will be blacklisted -- unless there is a damn good explanation (in one case a Gold Forum member was directing people to the wife of his recently deceased brother -- that was allowed).

The other thing about WTB, is that the scammers may send out 5-10 inquiries in a hour. It is easy for them to say "I have exactly what you want" with a product description, because they've just read your listing.

To any WTB answerer, I would demand custom photos instantly, along with verification of name and address. Then use free https://www.truepeoplesearch.com/ to see if that person actually exists in the location claimed.
 
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I had a PM exchange with the member that was the Nigerian scam. He wanted to be paid electronically for a firearm. And would not accept a bank check.

There are no forms of electronic payment that is suitable for the sale of a firearm.

When I called him out on not being willing to take money order or bank check he danced around and said something about his wife. And there were two different locations. He was in one place and the electronic person was in Texas. I have the entire conversation still left over in my messages. still left over in my messages.
 
Answering the question “Can upgraded members also be scammers?” Yes, that is possible, however, they would have to provide real, validated identity and financial information in order to upgrade. The scammers don’t want to do that. Knock on wood, except in cases of hacked passwords — usually from a hacked phone — we have not seen scammer activity by Gold and Silver members.
 
Thank you forum boss.
I have only had two transactions herein the forum. Both went extremely well.
Will definitely go the extra mile to treat everyone fair and honest, while maintaining honorable sales and purchases. Really a shame the majority suffers from the actions of a few. Not the world it used to be in the past. Used to be a man's word was good enough, usually followed by a handshake. Some so called men today do not how to shake hands.

Enough said
Everyone have a great evening.
 
Man are we lucky to have a boss that puts in the work to keep this site safe. It’s a real shame how much effort some people will put into scamming others. Strange world we live in and there will always be someone trying to separate you from your money. Sad reality.
Dave
 
Easy fix. WTB? Send me the $$$ and when I get it, I'll send you the WHATEVER you paid for. ;)
Same for WTS. Send me the WHATEVER and when I get it, I'll send you the $$$ by return mail. ;)
And when it comes to "getting scammed", I would check how and why you got involved/taken in the first place. :confused:
You need the $$$ that bad?? Or, you want "that item" that bad??
 
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