Redding Type S bushing die and neck concentricity

[6Creed73]

I just sized several cases in two steps with two bushings as suggested by @243winxb and it consistently improved runout by almost .002

That's crazy. Guess I should have read the Redding recommendation on their site

I think I'm going to order a couple of those SAC bushings too.

 

[marchboom]

Welcome to the club. Had the same problem but with .005" runout. Tried everything with no luck. Switched to a Forster FL die and got about .001" runout. No I will only use Forster FL dies and have them honed.

 

[Pres100]

Just did some reading on the SAC bushings. I didn't know these existed...this may be the ticket right here.

they are a little more expensive but so far seem to be working as advertised

 

[Mark611]

You guy's need to use a LEE collet die and be done with it!

 

[6Creed73]

You guy's need to use a LEE collet die and be done with it!

I've been thinking about getting one just to try it out, they are cheap so why not. But I doubt I'd use it. I like to control how much I size the neck with bushings. I'm guessing the Lee will size it down too much as pretty much all non-bushing dies do.

I would like to do some testing with one though. I know people who use it swear by it.

 

[Fast14riot]

I've been thinking about getting one just to try it out, they are cheap so why not. But I doubt I'd use it. I like to control how much I size the neck with bushings. I'm guessing the Lee will size it down too much as pretty much all non-bushing dies do.

I would like to do some testing with one though. I know people who use it swear by it.

You can buy different size mandrels for Lee collet dies or lightly polish the stock mandrel down. But, the benefit is it sizes from the inside, so neck wall doesn't really matter. I've never had excessive neck tension from the stock mandrel though.

 

[skeeljc]

My experience is .002" t.i.r. with a Redding bushing die and .001" t.i.r. with a one piece die like Forster. Both with no expander. Both produce good reloads. .002" t.i.r. has become my acceptable hurdle.

 

[6Creed73]

My experience is .002" t.i.r. with a Redding bushing die and .001" t.i.r. with a one piece die like Forster. Both with no expander. Both produce good reloads. .002" t.i.r. has become my acceptable hurdle.

I agree, .002 is acceptable for me as well. Of course that doesn't stop me from trying to get less and my OCD almost demands it

 

[Pres100]

This was my fastest way to that....I got similar results

 

[6Creed73]

This was my fastest way to that....I got similar results

I ordered 3 yesterday

 

[Rat Rifle]

You guy's need to use a LEE collet die and be done with it!

Mark, keep the secret among the true believers

 

[Mark611]

 

[mikecr]

Details would be needed to determine a specific cause.

Have a question for you guys who use a Redding Type S FL die and measure neck concentricity.

What gauge are you using? Where on necks are you taking datum?

I can check the concentricity of a fired case and it's usually really good, like around 1-2 thou out.

This should be less than 1thou right up front. Then sizing increases TIR from there as described.

It's always bugged me a bit but I didn't worry about it too much because I also use an expander mandrel and after seating a bullet, the bullet runout is good (1-2 thou).

Bullet runout is less than you can measure. Do you mean loaded TIR off a bullet datum, and NOT concentricity (with any of it)?

Today I decided to knock the dust off of an old Hornady match FL die just to compare. Same press, same shell holder, same fired brass...and the Hornady die is producing great concentricity, usual around 1 thou out.

Where/when are you measuring this runout?
Sized/unloaded necks, loaded necks, off seated bullets?

How much neck sizing are you doing?
What is your fired/unsized neck OD -vs- bushing/sized neck OD?
How much length is the neck sizing?

 

[6BRA]

Remove the decapping assembly and nut. Stack 2 bushings inside. Threaded components induce runout.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I just sized several cases in two steps with two bushings as suggested by @243winxb and it consistently improved runout by almost .002

That's crazy. Guess I should have read the Redding recommendation on their site

I think I'm going to order a couple of those SAC bushings too.

I think that we have fewer issues if we move the brass as little as is necessary and no more. I doubt the issue is with the die or bushing. Glad you found something that seems to work well.

 

[powderbrake]

I purchased some SAC bushings, on the reported ability to reduce runout. I tried them on one application, and found no difference. They are really nice looking bushings and I will use them eventually, I am not knocking them.

 

[Webster]

No, I took the expander ball out a long time ago. I expand the necks with a separate mandrel. I took it out of the Hornady as well.

There is nothing to guide an expander mandrel with the center line of the case body. It's a long rod aligned only by the slop in the threads in the top of the die. Never checked run out since my GH hunting rifles are accurate without going beyond what I already do. Top shooters like Erik Cortina and others use bushing dies. I think Erik uses a mandrel but all his reloading equipment is probably better than what we use. I don't think his videos explain getting the mandrel aligned.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Load up a some rounds without all the "corrective" measures in place. Select a few each at 0 to .002" TIR (total indicated runout) and .002" to .004" TIR and shoot them. Then tell us if you can shoot the difference between the two.

There is a reason why so many shooters here when asked whether they own a concentricity gauge reply that they bought one a long time ago, but now it simply sits in the box in a drawer somewhere. I can understand that OCD might drive a reloader to reduce TIR to as close to zero as possible, believe me, I do...I really do. But that is the OCD talking, not an actual target demonstrating unacceptable precision. Someone that routinely obtains TIR in the .005" to .008" range (or greater) really might need to do something about it. If it's just a couple thousandths, most will never be able to shoot the difference. There are enough other issues that really do need to be addressed during the reloading process that there is no reason to invent another one solely due to OCD.

 

[AckAck]

I had the exact same issue and used the exact same solution. Switching to a Hornady die solved the problem. The only thing that I could come up with was the S-die wasn't machined properly.

 

[Iowa Fox]

Here's my take on the S die. It all depends on the reamer that cut your chamber and your neck clearance.
Speedy came up with the bushing die, we know he was turning necks and cutting a chamber with minimum clearance. The bushing die works perfect for that application.

Factory barrels have a pretty generous neck clearance (sloppy) leaving you with a fired piece of brass with a generously swollen neck. Its to much squeeze for a floating bushing no matter what you try or what lube you use your going to induce neck run out.

For my factory chambers I use a Redding bump die and Lee factory collet neck sizer if they make it for the case I'm loading for. Heck ! They don't even make one for the 6BR.

For the stuff I don't have a bushing die or collet neck sizer for I just use a full length sizing die with the expander ball/ decapping rod removed completely. Then in a separate operation shove a expander into a well lubricated neck. A 20 dollar Redding/RCBS full length sizing die and a good expander will most of the time do a better job on a factory fired case than a Redding S die.