M2 Ball Load for M1917 Eddystone

[dusterdave173]

Hey gang
Well last week I got lucky and scored a crusty old M1917 Eddystone 30-06 WW1 rifle
It was Crusty! The bore looked like the inside of a hollow log--rust in lots of places--mismatched wood etc
Well---I dove in--took it apart, cleaned , scrubbed, wire brushed, sanded, filed, steel wooled, the Works! After some touch up with cold blue, a Lot of linseed oil and an epic barrel scrub--I have a pretty presentable rifle
It came with a lot of old surplus ammo--Well after firing about 100 rounds It seems to like some old M2 Ball in the plain white boxes--I got some AP but it kicks hard and is just a novelty--so I want to load some that are same as it was built for--I got some Privi 150g flat base bullets--folks said these old barrels like those--and when I took one load down that is what it had--with the M2 recoil was easy and it worked with the factory sights--the dang thing did some 3 1/2 in 100 yd groups just playing off a bag and bench--I am in Love with the old thing. I have only loaded 223 --want to keep as close to the M2 as possible--I am thinking around 2700 FPS? What powders should I start with?
I have several lbs of TAC that I am not using for anything else--they had load data for 30-06 on Ramshot site Would that work OK? I am just plinking and playing
Thanks for any info
All of a sudden I am in Love with Mil Surp rifles--No pressure to put them all in one hole--Just Fun!

 

[dusterdave173]

Here she is

 

[Doom]

You are working with 100 year old design and metallurgy. The best recommendation I can give you is to look at M2 loads designed for M1 Garand rifles and stay with bullets in the 150 grain range. Hodgdon has a section on M1 loads and powders and you might want to visit https://forums.thecmp.org/.

This rifle is not a modern 30-06 and should be loaded for very carefully.

 

[jackieschmidt]

You can duplicate the original150 grn M-2 ball ammo at around 2670 fps and feel safe.

I can’t argue with what Doom stated in post #3.

 

[mongo chicago]

The 1917 was much stronger than the 1903. Many were sporterized into magnum calibers such as the 300 Win. Mag. So even though it is over 100 years old, military equivalent loads will be perfectly fine. I have a Winchester 1917 with it's original barrel. Wondering if I should get a WW1 doughboy helmet, flip over the couch and watch The Lost Battalion.

 

[Fast14riot]

Here is my 1917. These actions are heavy, strong and built like tanks. They were the choice for heavy magnums way back when. I shoot 175smk around 2900 on paper and 178amax about 2850 on game.

When loading 30-06 please cross reference several load books/sites as I've seen huge variations in data, like max load for one is below starting load for another, same bullet/powder/case (Sierra vs Hodgdon i.e.). I discovered this at the range one day, thankfully I was shooting a ladder and stopped once things got weird.

 

[nbkky71]

For a nice short range load try the Speer 125gr TNT bullet over 47-48 gr of 4895. Accurate with mild recoil.

 

[SeabeeKen]

A friend brought me one to clean. It was BAD. No visible rifling,just thick carbon. Started with a 30 cal brush and 10 strokes it was loose. Went to 338 brush, 10 strokes and loose and still carbon. Went to 35 cal brush, it loosened slightly and then evened out. Bore scope showed pits from end to end and zero rifling. Looked like the surface of the moon in there. He had a new barrel put on it. Corrosive ammo and no cleaning I would imagine.

 

[RegionRat]

Corrosive ammo and no cleaning I would imagine.

Many of these were run in terrible field conditions where you can't blame the GI for the results.

Best to leave these as memorabilia on the walls, or to re-barrel if you want to play with them.

A decent gunsmith with the skills and facilities can find a good replacement barrel and turn it into a good rig for the CMP Wooden Guns Games.

I agree with the others above, in serviceable barrels, these do not require low pressure loads and can handle anything a modern gun can. That said, we download with light 120 - 125 gr bullets and H4895 to improve the rapid strings when competing with these like @nbkky71 said.

 

[Dave Zander]

My dad had one of these he bought in the 40’s. First center fire rifle I ever shot. kicked the crap out of me , metal but pad and all. No longer have it but from what I remember that action was built like a tank, it appeared to have Twice the steel of todays actions.

 

[Laurie]

The 1917 was much stronger than the 1903. Many were sporterized into magnum calibers such as the 300 Win. Mag. So even though it is over 100 years old, military equivalent loads will be perfectly fine.

I had a 300 H&H Magnum built one back in the early days of F-Class. Until not that many years ago, Art Alphin's outfit was building African dangerous game magnum rifles on the P'14/M1917 action.

Here is my 1917. These actions are heavy, strong and built like tanks. They were the choice for heavy magnums way back when.

Just so. According to the late Frank de Haas in his books on actions, they are incredibly strong and will take magnum cartridge pressures safely and with ease. What he and other gunsmiths involved in sporterising these actions do say though is that the steel used was high phosphorous content making it brittle and crack prone if subject to shock. de Haas mentions one cracking that was dropped onto a concrete workshop floor, and removing the usually very tight original military barrel can damage them if done too brutally. The gunsmith trick was to dunk a stripped action in petroleum (gasoline) before using it in a build. Any hairline crack retained the liquid as it evaporated off making it show.

The M2 ball load was a gilding metal jacket flat-base FMJ, nominally 151gn weight, loaded with the original DuPont No.4895 (IMR-4895 today). The charge ran from ~49gn to ~51gn adjusted by the arsenal depending on lot to give the M2's nominal 2,800 fps MV. Pressure was around 46,700 lbs. (Gen Julian Hatcher - Hatcher's Notebook.)

 

[mongo chicago]

What he and other gunsmiths involved in sporterising these actions do say though is that the steel used was high phosphorous content making it brittle and crack prone if subject to shock. de Haas mentions one cracking that was dropped onto a concrete workshop floor, and removing the usually very tight original military barrel can damage them if done too brutally. The gunsmith trick was to dunk a stripped action in petroleum (gasoline) before using it in a build. Any hairline crack retained the liquid as it evaporated off making it show.

As I understand it, this was prone for the Eddystone built ones. I think it was caused by over tightening the original barrel on install.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Many of these were run in terrible field conditions where you can't blame the GI for the results.

Best to leave these as memorabilia on the walls, or to re-barrel if you want to play with them.

A decent gunsmith with the skills and facilities can find a good replacement barrel and turn it into a good rig for the CMP Wooden Guns Games.

I agree with the others above, in serviceable barrels, these do not require low pressure loads and can handle anything a modern gun can. That said, we download with light 120 - 125 gr bullets and H4895 to improve the rapid strings when competing with these like @nbkky71 said.

As I said, he had a new barrel put on it.

 

[DGP4]

Ramshot TAC works well for my Garand loads. I use 168 grain SMKs and Nosler Custom Competition bullets with 44 grains of powder. I would start at 43 grains and work your way up to find what works best in your rifle.

 

[Fast14riot]

Mine has been rebarreled with a brand new CBI barrel. The Smith that did mine specializes in milsurp guns and when I spoke to him about the barrel torque on these, he mentioned that any he has seen twisted or cracked were from using an improper action wrench or one not tight enough. It should drive off the shoulder on the front ring he told me. He hasn't had to cut a barrel shoulder in years.

My gun has also been converted to cock-on-open which shorten the hammer fall by about half. Timney trigger about 2.5lbs, NOS Redfield Jr base for a P17 milled flat. Its a good gun and with a modern recoil pad a joy to shoot. A pig to carry in the field for any significant length of time, but I'm still young and dumb enough to do it, lol!

 

[Walt Krafft]

While the P17 can shoot higher pressure loads than a M1, if you also have an M1, I would stay with M1 safe loads for both rifles. It would be too easy to get them mixed up.

 

[dusterdave173]

Thanks for all the input--I have to say I am Loving this old rifle! I shot 65 rounds yesterday and this morning I have what my dad called 'strawberries" on my shoulder--It shoots really well with the 1957 M2 Ball I have so I will chrono some of that and aim for the same speed
Again I appreciate all of the input

 

[mongo chicago]

Thanks for all the input--I have to say I am Loving this old rifle! I shot 65 rounds yesterday and this morning I have what my dad called 'strawberries" on my shoulder--It shoots really well with the 1957 M2 Ball I have so I will chrono some of that and aim for the same speed
Again I appreciate all of the input

Caution! Velocity and pressure are two different things. You can get higher pressure with lower velocity depending on the powder used. The 1917 is a very strong action but anything can be over done.

 

[jackieschmidt]

https://ia801902.us.archive.org/7/items/Bolt_Action_Rifles_3rd_Edition/Bolt_Action_Rifles_3rd_Edition.pdf

Here is a download to the De Hass book. Great info in hear.

 

[kenhwind]

I almost bought an Eddystone M1917 from a local gun shop but passed after doing some research. the price was okay, but this P 17 had been rebarreled with a JA 2 groove barrel and had the birchwood stock. Obviously, an early WWII, or pre-WWII rebuild.

Remington evolved the 1917 into the Model 700.

My rifles are both Remington's one is a 1903A3, the other a 1903 both are arsenal rebuild so I'm not too worried about that issue. I generally use H4895 / IMR4895, or IMR4064 in my loads.