Chamfer/debur before neck expanding or after?
- Thread starter harry_x1
- Start date
my body size die also has an integaral neck bushing...so basically I will be body sizing and over tightening neck first. Then I plan to run the case through an expanding mandrel to get correct neck tension. Then trim the brass followed by chamfer/debur. Is this the correct order? Once fired brass.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
The proper term for your die is a bushing FL die. Body dies do not have a place to put a bushing. On your once fired brass, you can clean the necks with some 0000 steel wool for the outside, and a little brushing of the inside, then anneal, size, chamfer and debur, then expand. Since cases are hardly ever tight head to shoulder after one firing, and we only bump to create clearance if it is needed, I recommend that you set your die to the same shoulder to head dimension as the fired case and then try it in your rifle. Most of the time it will chamber just fine. How are you doing your annealing?
this raises a question on when to trim. In the sequence you gave, should I trim after sizing in the bushing FL die (if required)?
I have annealeez but have learnt (youtube) that amp annealing is the only way to go. I found a cheaper DIY cheaper option (link to youtube below). Still refining it. Just ordered some templiq to make sure I am doing it right. Let me know if you have a view point suggestion on this approach.
thanks for all your inputs.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
The only thing that I find incorrect is the glowing red case neck. Some powders need to have significant neck tension to do their best. Necks that are heated to that degree can be too soft for those applications, and accuracy will suffer. IMO there is a LOT of bad advice on the internet on annealing, some from shooters who may not understand that what they do might not work well for another situation. Here is an article worth reading carefully. https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/annealing/
Trim after body/fl sizing cause the die squeezes the body in making it longer. Can't see where deburring/chamfering makes any difference reference sizing but definitely after trimming. And don't trim too short.
Frank
Frank
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
I agree with this assessment. However I found no difference I could detect when I annealed case necks at 750 and 1050. Then I watched this video, and found it interesting.
No don't want a burr or rough edge when you shove a mandrel or expander button in the neck.
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
I recommend chamfering as the last step before expanding to ensure that no metal is “dragged” into the neck with the mandrel.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
How were you evaluating the potential difference? I have experience annealing going back a long time and I can recommend the information in the article.
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jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
Bullet seating pressure (by feel), measured neck dimensions, case life, and on the target. Nothing real scientific I recognize. Just read so much about dead soft case neck if you slightly exceed whatever temperature. Flame that turn yellow means you are burning the zinc out and so on.
Also somewhat influenced by input of forum members @riflewoman regarding the difference in temperature in stress relieving if you only go to 750, vs true annealing if you go just over 1,000. Her calculations on work hardening exactly matched my actual experience.
So my progression started in the 60's standing the cases in a baking pan with water half way up the case body, heating them and then tipping them over. Through 3 more iterations and now using Aztec with AMP.
farmerjohn
Gold $$ Contributor
My past and present experience exactly! I'm watching this tread to see what the more knowledgeable crowd comes in with. From what Eric came up with it is leading me to believe that we might be overthinking the whole thing. It's hard to damage the bottom half of the case if it's under water.... John
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Not having a link to the post referred to, I do not quite understand what is being said. Years ago I followed the water, pie pan tip over, dull red in darkened room instructions in an old Lyman manual and my case necks were over softened, which was easy to feel when seating bullets, and the accuracy was significantly reduced. Since then I helped a couple of fellows set up their annealing processes using information in the article I posted a link to. In both cases, the necks were not over annealed. In one case a shoulder bump inconsistency issue was resolved, while retaining neck tension needed for heavy bullet, magnum loads, fed from a magazine. The other fellow was experiencing what he believed to be excessive variation in seating force when loading .223 for a varmint rifle. His problem was fixed. His necks were not dead soft, and his accuracy was excellent. Are you guys saying that your dead soft necks shoot well, or what? A friend who holds 1K aggregate records does not anneal because the powder he uses "preferrs" quite a bit of seating force. Other winners that I have interviewed do not anneal. This is not a universal thing. Some do and some don't. Reading the internet you would get the impression that it is a requirement. Evidently it is not.
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Yes.
Unfortunately many consider this a ‘step’ in reloading. I say unfortunate only because what you are doing is not understood. I’m talking about bolt rifles. To ‘bump’ the shoulder back an arbitrary amount could only be worsened by a coat of oil on the case. At that point bolt thrust should cross your mind.
Ahh… riflewoman. There was a wealth of knowledge.
Not on since October. I’ve asked but no results. I hope she is fine and just moved to another site.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
To answer the OP's question ; I anneal after every firing . The next step in MY process is to do a light de-burring on the outside of the neck , to insure there is no burr that could wear or damage the Die or Bushing .Then sized with a Redding Type "S" Bushing Die . After a second "washing" , to remove the case lube , I then use a low speed drill with a 22 degree tool to chamfer the I.D. of the neck . Then ; they get the carbide expander . Extra steps ? Yeah . Probably . But my practice Brass is pushing thirty re-loads , and still giving me good numbers .
New Lapua gets chamfered and De-burred , then Expanded before first loading . Always . I fire new Brass three times before first anneal . Best accuracy seems to be on the third re-load , according to my records .
New Lapua gets chamfered and De-burred , then Expanded before first loading . Always . I fire new Brass three times before first anneal . Best accuracy seems to be on the third re-load , according to my records .
I use case lube before body sizing. Use a cloth to clean case after sizing. Should I so some more treatment of the case to remove the lube fully?
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Some case lubes are harder to remove than others. IMO you need to do what your lube requires. I am pretty much an if it works it is correct kind of guy.
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