Has anyone had any issues with cci 450 primers? These were bought with in last 2 years. Just getting around to loading with them. I had a 6x45 built. Im using LC brass. First time out flawless operation. About a month had passed, i loaded up 2 more powders to try and started having failed ignitions intermittently. Would take 2-4 times operating the bolt in order to get it to go off. First powder was H335, no issues. Then i tried W748 and N133 and had issues. I came home and inspected all i could think of. This was built on a savage axis action if that matters. I have another axis in 223 that i compared with and has same firing pin protruding through bolt head. Just took rifle out again yesterday and same issue again with W748 powder. Im woundering if its a bad primer issue. Here is a picture of 2 rounds that just would not ignite even after 5 tries. Its my first time with this primer in any cartridge. I have other primers i can try but did not want to waist a lot testing out a new cartridge to me. I have a good load now figured out. I can swap primers and see what happens?
Cci 450 issues
- Thread starter JB10
- Start date
HandgunHTR
Gold $$ Contributor
Do you have a picture of any loaded rounds prior to trying to fire them?
If the primers work with one powder (H335) and not with others, it could be a powder issue, not a primer issue.
Also, if they eventually go off after trying them a couple of times, that usually points to the fact that they were not seated fully to begin with or your firing pin spring is too light.
As it is LC brass, I will ask what is your technique for removing the primer crimp?
If the primers work with one powder (H335) and not with others, it could be a powder issue, not a primer issue.
Also, if they eventually go off after trying them a couple of times, that usually points to the fact that they were not seated fully to begin with or your firing pin spring is too light.
As it is LC brass, I will ask what is your technique for removing the primer crimp?
Ugh, this seems like a more frequent occurrence with the 450’s over the last 1-2 years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem, but I’m sure lots of folks on this site will share similar experiences to what you saw.
Dave
Dave
At the moment i do not have any loaded rounds. The ones that have been fired look seated about the same as what is for my 223. I use a lot of LC for 223 bolt rifles. To remove the crimp i cut it out with a hand held Lyman tool specifically for that. I took apart the bolt with the issue and looked at it hard and compared it with another one i have in 223. All looks the same. I could swap springs from one rifle to the other but can not swap complete bolts due to head spacing. The 6x45 is a shouldered barrel installed by a smith.
I am going to pull them tomorrow and check. Did not have a chance yet. Was inspecting more the bolt and firing pin. Im leaning on primer issue more so.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
FWIW. I've gone through ~ 20,000 CCI 450's over the past two years without a failure to fire.
Of course, you could have lucked out with a bad lot, but, as others have said, I would want to make sure the primer did/didn't actually go off, whether the primers are being fully seated and put in a new firing pin spring.
My understanding also is the firing pin 'fall' needs to be, I think, ~ .250".
Of course, you could have lucked out with a bad lot, but, as others have said, I would want to make sure the primer did/didn't actually go off, whether the primers are being fully seated and put in a new firing pin spring.
My understanding also is the firing pin 'fall' needs to be, I think, ~ .250".
17cal Fan
Silver $$ Contributor
Axis had a known spring issue. I sold several of them when I had my shop and Savage sent me springs in case I needed them. I looked just now, I have none left.
Going from memory, the spring would hang up and not operate as it should. I think you could actually cause it to fail, like operating the bolt too slow or too fast, just don't remember the whole mess. You might call them with a serial number.
Just looked, bunch of videos on youtube.
Going from memory, the spring would hang up and not operate as it should. I think you could actually cause it to fail, like operating the bolt too slow or too fast, just don't remember the whole mess. You might call them with a serial number.
Just looked, bunch of videos on youtube.
Yeah i read that last night. The 223 i have has never had an issue with 7 1/2 primers. Its 3 years old. This 6x45 was bought in September 2022 and gun shop had just got it in from savage so i would assume that if there was an issue that they fixed this one should be fixed. Im just hoping this is not a bolt/spring issue. Tomorrow if the primers look as if just failed i will try another brand. If that dont fix ill swap the bolt internals with my 223 and recheck.
If not primer.......
Head clearance issue/cartridge headspacing.
After opening the necks to 6mm, all rounds fired, first firing? With CCI450?
The Savage Axis extractor allows a lot of forward movement of the cartridge on firing. If the shoulder has been set back a lot from to much sizing, may be an issue.
Size brass, so there is a slight crush fit when chambering a round.
My 223 Axis had a misfire using CCI 400 primer. Just 1.
What i learned from this misfire is... The firing pin strike can set the case shoulder back .006" The 2nd strike makes the head to datum measurement, ever shorter.
Tested a few times.
So, the more times you try to fire a bad primer, the futher away it gets from the firing pin. More cartridge slop in the chamber.
Head clearance issue/cartridge headspacing.
After opening the necks to 6mm, all rounds fired, first firing? With CCI450?
The Savage Axis extractor allows a lot of forward movement of the cartridge on firing. If the shoulder has been set back a lot from to much sizing, may be an issue.
Size brass, so there is a slight crush fit when chambering a round.
My 223 Axis had a misfire using CCI 400 primer. Just 1.
What i learned from this misfire is... The firing pin strike can set the case shoulder back .006" The 2nd strike makes the head to datum measurement, ever shorter.
Tested a few times.
So, the more times you try to fire a bad primer, the futher away it gets from the firing pin. More cartridge slop in the chamber.
Open a couple trays of the 450s with anvil side up. Look them over. Make sure they all have the anvil and the mixture pellet in the right place. Load a couple, even just the primer and see if they all fire.Most primer problems turn out to be "something" else. Headspace, seating depth, firing pin/bolt issue, , firing pin spring weak. Also the 450 primer is thicker and will show up any ignition weaknesses that a reg primer may not.
Frank
Frank
what priming tool are you using?
this is why im happy i spent the money on the primal rights cps and primewhere depth checker.
i first measure the primer thickness on about 10 primers or so, then measure the primer pockets on 10 cases or so, then set up my depth on the cps so the thinnest primer in the deepest pocket still makes good anvil contact with the bottom of the primer pocket.
not saying this is 100% your issue but it may be something to look into
this is why im happy i spent the money on the primal rights cps and primewhere depth checker.
i first measure the primer thickness on about 10 primers or so, then measure the primer pockets on 10 cases or so, then set up my depth on the cps so the thinnest primer in the deepest pocket still makes good anvil contact with the bottom of the primer pocket.
not saying this is 100% your issue but it may be something to look into
Im using a bench mounted rcbs priming tool. Ill check out more primers in the box tonight and see. This is my first time using the 450 primers. If i cant see any issue ill load up 20 with rem 7 1/2 and see. Ive never had an issue with them. I have a few different primers i can try. I can back my sizing die off just a bit and check bump. Im using a redding fl die for this cartridge. Some of the brass had already been fired in this rifle once and resized. I now hav fired cases i can measure against sized ones and see what the difference is.
HandgunHTR
Gold $$ Contributor
I think this may not be a primer issue but a ”fireforming” issue (For lack of a better term).
I have a Rem 700 that I built into a 7TCU. I loaded up some fireforming loads using CCI 41 primers. I have used that same lot of primers in 6.5 Grendel (Encore), 6.8 SPC (AR), and that same REM when it was still a .223. No problems. When I went to the range to fireform that brass, I had an over 10% ”failure” rate.
After a few go-rounds to try to figure out the problem, I realized that I didn’t have the bullet seated out far enough to engage the lands and didn’t have a false shoulder, the round was moving forward just enough to prevent firing.
Once that problem was identified, I have not had a problem with those primers since. Also, once the brass was fire formed and correctly sized, the issue went away. That is all good because I still have over 3500 of those primers.
I have a Rem 700 that I built into a 7TCU. I loaded up some fireforming loads using CCI 41 primers. I have used that same lot of primers in 6.5 Grendel (Encore), 6.8 SPC (AR), and that same REM when it was still a .223. No problems. When I went to the range to fireform that brass, I had an over 10% ”failure” rate.
After a few go-rounds to try to figure out the problem, I realized that I didn’t have the bullet seated out far enough to engage the lands and didn’t have a false shoulder, the round was moving forward just enough to prevent firing.
Once that problem was identified, I have not had a problem with those primers since. Also, once the brass was fire formed and correctly sized, the issue went away. That is all good because I still have over 3500 of those primers.
I'm having horrible problems with the CCI #41s which are the same primer. They're popping out, and swiping case heads badly in .223/5.56mm known loads.... even on fairly reduced versions of the same load.
I tried switching to Ball Powder (TAC) to get a slower burn rate and a ball powder, and even at modest velocity, the heads swipe a little, and a few will show the primer backing out of the brass.
These primers are used for mixed brass bulk target ammo, so the massive SDs aren't a deal breaker, but jamming up my fire control group with popped primers sucks.
I've spent way too many weeks trying to get an acceptable load for these awful primers. I've never had a component give me so much trouble.
I tried switching to Ball Powder (TAC) to get a slower burn rate and a ball powder, and even at modest velocity, the heads swipe a little, and a few will show the primer backing out of the brass.
These primers are used for mixed brass bulk target ammo, so the massive SDs aren't a deal breaker, but jamming up my fire control group with popped primers sucks.
I've spent way too many weeks trying to get an acceptable load for these awful primers. I've never had a component give me so much trouble.
nmkid
Gold $$ Contributor
Well, yesterday I used 450's for the first time. The 2nd round went, "click" instead of "boom". Of course, I had the bullet jammed so, extracting caused powder spillage. I cleaned everything up and kept going. Four of the following 5 rounds also went click. I gave up at that point and went home. I took the rounds apart and made sure all the powder was out. I then took some of the cases, (6) I hadn't tried and they all went click! Next, I deprimed all the cases and primed 10 cases with regular CCI SRPs. They all went off! New Defiance action on new rifle. Cases were beforehand, uniformed, and primers set .004 below the base of the case. Also, I just purchased the 450s 3 weeks ago.
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