New Berger .224 Bullet

[Ned Ludd]

I hadn't heard of anyone having jacket failure issues with the 85.5s until now, either. Also wondering whether a 0.218" bore was involved. Two 0.218" bore 6.8-twist 5R barrels I had on one F-TR rifle have blown up both 90 VLDs and 88 ELDMs. Because I was already using the 90 VLDs, I never saw any benefit to trying the 85.5s and so I can't say how they would have done in those barrels. Using a 0.219" bore makes a big difference...it's definitely the way to go with heavies in .223 Rem.

FWIW - in the past there have been a couple Lot#s of 90 VLDs that seemed far more sensitive to jacket failure than previous or later Lot#s. Maybe it could just be that particular Lot# of bullets, but that's not so easy to know with any certainty unless others with the same Lot# also report jacket failures.

 

[BP1]

That's unfortunate. I was just telling @sfinn1 i hadn't heard of them blowing up.

.219 or .218 bore? 24.4 doesn't sound that hot, some run more than that with 90s.

Jeremy they were probably hiding behind the spotter

 

[BP1]

Jeremy they were probably hiding behind the spotter

.219 bore

 

[BP1]

I hadn't heard of anyone having jacket failure issues with the 85.5s until now, either. Also wondering whether a 0.218" bore was involved. Two 0.218" bore 6.8-twist 5R barrels I had on one F-TR rifle have blown up both 90 VLDs and 88 ELDMs. Because I was already using the 90 VLDs, I never saw any benefit to trying the 85.5s and so I can't say how they would have done in those barrels. Using a 0.219" bore makes a big difference...it's definitely the way to go with heavies in .223 Rem.

FWIW - in the past there have been a couple Lot#s of 90 VLDs that seemed far more sensitive to jacket failure than previous or later Lot#s. Maybe it could just be that particular Lot# of bullets, but that's not so easy to know with any certainty unless others with the same Lot# also report jacket failures.

Greg I’m not giving up on them yet..these little boolits shoot really good, I shoot them in my other 223 also and have been impressed by them. That barrel is a 7 twist 28” .218 bore 24.3gr of Varget @ 2740fps.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Greg I’m not giving up on them yet..these little boolits shoot really good, I shoot them in my other 223 also and have been impressed by them. That barrel is a 7 twist 28” .218 bore 24.3gr of Varget @ 2740fps.

Whatever works, absolutely. I was only stating that I never tried them because I already had the 90 VLDs working to my satisfaction, not attempting drawing any conclusion about the performance of the 85.5s. I know at least a couple F-TR shooters that have had good success with them.

 

[BP1]

Greg I’m not giving up on them yet..these little boolits shoot really good, I shoot them in my other 223 also and have been impressed by them. That barrel is a 7 twist 28” .218 bore 24.3gr of Varget @ 2740fps.

Shot the 6.7 twist with 24.4gr of Varget 30” barrel over the lab this morning average speed was 2790fps 60 degrees out. So I doubt I was blowing up boolits..maybe I just suck

 

[mgdietrich]

Anyone shooting 85.5 seems to be shooting them SLOW, less than 2800. If that combo works, good deal. But then their ballistic advantage to 80’s or 90’s isn’t there. Accuracy is still the most important thing.
I tried them at 2900+ and they were consistently inconsistent in a 1-7, 5r Bartlein with a .196 freebore. Sold all I had, glad they are working for others.

 

[LVLAaron]

Anyone shooting 85.5 seems to be shooting them SLOW, less than 2800. If that combo works, good deal. But then their ballistic advantage to 80’s or 90’s isn’t there. Accuracy is still the most important thing.
I tried them at 2900+ and they were consistently inconsistent in a 1-7, 5r Bartlein with a .196 freebore. Sold all I had, glad they are working for others.

Maybe they need more twist... I'm biased in saying that because I have a 6.5 twist barrel ready to chamber.

 

[LVLAaron]

Ran numbers for fun. I'm running the 80.5's @ ~2900 and have not tested the 85.5's yet. I'd have to get them to 2850+ for them to make sense. I'm not trying to built an award winning FTR/Fullbore load... I just want something fun to practice with at midrange.

 

[BP1]

Had a shooting buddy crank them up to 3033fps today out of his 7.5twist and no blow ups so one should be able to get 2850-60 and not blow them up in a 6.7 twist.

 

[Ray Gross]

I've had shot the 85.5's from the high 2800's to over 3100 (with no blow ups), trying to find a load that doesn't throw random flyers. So far, I haven't found it.

 

[LVLAaron]

I've had shot the 85.5's from the high 2800's to over 3100 (with no blow ups), trying to find a load that doesn't throw random flyers. So far, I haven't found it.

What twist barrel?

 

[Ray Gross]

What twist barrel?

In order used; 1/7, 1/7.75 and a 1/7.5. I have a new 1/7 about to go back on. I know guys who have run them in 1/6.5's with no blow up problems.

I am really not sure what to make of the flyer issue with the 85.5's. I have done zero bullet sorting with them, but I wonder if sorting by one or more attributes may be the key.

 

[LVLAaron]

Anything over 7 gets into "marginal stability" territory.... I wonder if they need 6.5 to spin'em hard

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I am running them in a 22BR and pushed them from 2,830 to 3,060 fps without a single failure out of a 7.5 twist barrel with .218 bore

 

[Ray Gross]

Anything over 7 gets into "marginal stability" territory.... I wonder if they need 6.5 to spin'em hard

Perhaps marginal, depending on the velocity.

 

[BP1]

I’m gonna step on the gas a bit more, around the 2850-60fps range and see how they do.

 

[Colnagotex]

Anything over 7 gets into "marginal stability" territory.... I wonder if they need 6.5 to spin'em hard

I use a 7.5 twist and they seem to be stable, at least out to 600 at 2850 or so out of my 223.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I’m gonna step on the gas a bit more, around the 2850-60fps range and see how they do.

Although I have never loaded the 85.5s, I did run a QuickLoad prediction with them when they were first released using H4895 as the powder. IIRC - ~2870 fps was the predicted node for a 30" barrel; i.e. just a tick faster than 90 VLDs in the same setup. I'd estimate that with Varget, a tuned load using the 85.5s ought to come in around 2840-2850 fps (30" barrel). Predicted pressure with 85.5s and H4895 was still up there, so at ~2870 fps, I'd expect the relatively poor brass life issues that are associated with running the 90 VLDs over H4895 at ~2850 fps from a 30" barrel with a 0.218" bore. Using a 0.219" bore may help significantly with the pressure/poor brass life issues. According to the Sgs provided by Berger's Twist Rate Calculator, a twist rate of as slow as 7.5 should work reasonably well for the 85.5s unless the temp and/or elevation were much lower (velocity = 2850 fps, 70 degrees F, 500 ft elevation, predicted Sg = 1.44), and a twist rate of 7.0 would be even better (predicted Sg = 1.65, same conditions).

In my hands, rigorous optimization of seating depth is the real key with the 90 VLDs, regardless of how fast one chooses to push them. In other words, I've been able to tune them in well via seating depth across a range of charge weights/velocities. Further, sorting 90 VLDs into ~.0015" length groups by OAL for the purpose of pointing also seems to help tighten up groups and minimize the number of unexpected flyers. I can't imagine why the same would not also be true for the 85.5s. Even though the 85.5 bullet comes pointed in the box, it would not be difficult to length sort (OAL) a few to determine whether length sorting would be of benefit in terms of precision. Also keep in mind that it is possible to re-point some factory-pointed bullets in the event you don't like the factory points. In the event one chooses to do this, the correct pointing die insert must be selected and a setting that generates the bare minimum of pointing necessary to "re-do" or "cover up" the factory determined.

 

[skiutah02]

I played around with the 95SMK and 85.5 about 2 years ago in a new 22BRX, 6.5 twist, 34 in straight pipe. Had the 85.5 up to 3248fps and they held together, i.e. no failures over 3 shots at 3248 and 5 shots per from 3000, 3100, 3200, 3250ish. Note: This was not a safe load. As Ray Gross and Morgen Dietrich has indicated, I have found the 85.5 to suffer more from random fliers than jacket failures in both the 223 and 22BRX. Drew