Side Effect of Cleaning -- Scope Rail Attachment

[big5ifty]

After cleaning my rifle, I loaded up a new batch of ammo and went to verify zero.

The zero group was terrible. From a half moa load to over four. I was, to say the least, very depressed.

So I get home, and think about what I may have done wrong.

Now it just happened that next to me on the range that day was a young man whose rail worked loose, and he had come over to ask if I had tools, which I did, and helped him out with.

I thought about it a bit more, and realised that the problem has to be mechanical, not load related, because the rifle shoots anything to within one moa, which it did for me over and over during load development.

I rocked the scope from side to side, and the rail rocked with it. The front screws were loose, the one rear screw was loose, there was one tight rear screw holding the rail on.

In the past, I had used a clear epoxy to bed the rail. The Ed's Red contains acetone, and it penetrates between any metal surfaces. Some of it clearly found it's way into the the front chamber area, worked it's way up the front rail screw, into the second rail screw, and must have dissolved the release agent I used on the action when I bedded the rail, creating enough of a gap to permit the screws to work loose under recoil. When I removed the rail, I had liquid between the rail and the front of the action.

I'm seriously considering using an acetone resistant epoxy to fix the rail to the action, after I get the rail screws bored out to one size bigger.

 

[INTJ]

I haven't had any issues with blue Loctite and 25 in lbs for attaching any kind of a scope base. That said, I am not sure if it would resist your solvent. I use KG-1 and KG-12 for light cleanings and Iosso for heavy cleanings.

 

[GetReal]

In my experience.... (1) insufficient bore fouling rounds fired or (2) carbon ring cause good loads to group bad.

Or loose scopes, receiver bolts loosening up etc,

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If your solvent worked its way up to the rail screws, your choice of solvent or frequency of cleaning isnt your problem

 

[ronsatspokane]

I hear people talk about a loose rail or rings. I have never had a rail work loose ever. I thought I had scope rings work loose in the past but clearly it was an installation issue. Myself being the installer. I don't over tighten the rail or the rings and I don't use torque wrenches anymore. I've installed so many over the years that I do it all by feel.

 

[moorepower]

If you use a bore guide, how did it work up to the screws?

 

[big5ifty]

If you use a bore guide, how did it work up to the screws?

Point taken.

I used a bore guide mostly, but the rifle spent over a week on the table being cleaned, so a lot went through it. I may have omitted using the guide a few times during that clean.

The action was separated from the stock at the end to see if the bedding was affected, there was nothing between.

It may happen that some cleaning solvent drips where it shouldn't, when it shouldn't.

I don't want that to be a reason to have to strip the rail off.

The other alternative is that the screws were already loosening up due to recoil - scope weighs just over two pounds - and the solvent just flowed up into the gap, and speeded up the process.

I would like to make sure that neither the recoil nor the solvents can cause the screws to loosen. The question is how.

 

[Rob01]

If your solvent worked its way up to the rail screws, your choice of solvent or frequency of cleaning isnt your problem

Exactly! Bigger issues than cleaning there. LOL

 

[Dusty Stevens]

With a proper bore guide and common cleaning procedures (keeping the muzzle sloped down) its impossible for solvent to reach your scope base screws

 

[farmerjohn]

Storing them barrel up, leaning slightly back like some foke do will allow any surplus lube or solvent left in the barrel to run right down the inside back of the action. Seen lots of old shotguns with soft stocks where they meet the action... John

 

[6BRA]

Red lock tite....what couldn't you put a heat gun on? Or Torch?

 

[6MMsteve]

I always clean my rifles canted bore down bout 15 deg, but you said you had it apart maybe some cleaner got on it, then maybe you forgot to tighten the rail screws, I always use a torque wrench to verify ething is good.... but poop happens to all of us

 

[Dave M.]

If your solvent worked its way up to the rail screws, your choice of solvent or frequency of cleaning isnt your problem

Sounds more like someone needs a decent bore guide and good cleaning stand.

 

[Dave M.]

Red lock tite....what couldn't you put a heat gun on? Or Torch?

No red loctite on ANYTHING Gun related for me.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No red loctite on ANYTHING Gun related for me.

Ive seen a few very nice actions hurt bad with guys putting red loctite on front base screws. Had a bat with the threads galled right out of it a few years ago when the barrel got locked up

 

[R.Morehouse]

Storing them barrel up, leaning slightly back like some foke do will allow any surplus lube or solvent left in the barrel to run right down the inside back of the action. Seen lots of old shotguns with soft stocks where they meet the action... John

Does a number on triggers as well......

 

[Charlie-NY]

I bought a custom rifle from a member on another site. The gun would, and then wouldn't, shoot accurately. It was frustrating. Eventually I grabbed the scope and tried to move it or the mounts in a rotational fashion. To my surprise, the entire action rolled in the stock.

The gun was bedded but the sides of the recoil were not. When the action screws loosened a bit, it allowed the action to roll. None of my other custom rifles can do that. Hmmmmm - After inspection I put the barrel action back into the stock and torqued it to 65 in/lbs. It has been shooting great since. Ya just never know what you'll find when things aren't going well.

 

[Rob01]

Storing them barrel up, leaning slightly back like some foke do will allow any surplus lube or solvent left in the barrel to run right down the inside back of the action. Seen lots of old shotguns with soft stocks where they meet the action... John

You should not be leaving that much solvents/oil in the barrel when done cleaning. If you are then you are doing it wrong.

 

[big5ifty]

I notice that my brake is still tight, even though I clean the rifle with the brake on. So that means solvent it not a thing able to loosen tightened screws, or the brake would also be loose.

Most likely the rail was loosening up already, and the solvent just found a gap and sped the loosening process up after that.

I now wrap a strip of cloth on the chamber end of the bore guide to arrest any solvent trying to sneak into the chamber.

I had several gunsmiths tell me that 6-40 screws never shoot loose if they're torqued correctly. Well now, these were torqued correctly, the rail was bedded, and they shot loose.

Bigger screws as soon as the 'smith has an open slot for me.

 

[Clancy]

Only two colors of lock tite in my book- blue and JB WELD

@414gates always use a bore guide and clean muzzle down. Dry the chamber and the bore of solvents. Some run a very damp patch of oil after cleaning, or some a patch of lock ease. I have recently switched to lock ease, and I leave the rifle muzzle down until morning while the carrier evaporates. (I’m not trying to start a cleaning debate, I’m just saying I’ve never had a leak keeping it muzzle down.)