Lack of ethics in long range Hunting Breakdown
- Thread starter Wolfdog91
- Start date
We have to know where he’s coming from. I have watched dozens of Randy’s videos. Randy was born in “the day” of a truly exceptional, shining America. I glean he’s lived his entire life in the gorgeous, idyllic, wide open West, but more than that, at the exact era that technology and prosperity made it both comfortable and accessible, so that it became the envy of hunters and outdoorsmen from all over.
Randy would have seen first hand the peak and decline of big game health, the expansion of our population, roads and housing, fencing, and the proliferation of fancy, expensive game-killing bullets and cheaper, more disposable magnum rifles, to saturate the closets of millions of suburbanites who can’t wait to escape the office and let out their inner survivalist, for a bit.
Randy, like professional guides, outfitters and all gunsmiths, probably has a love hate relationship with certain aspects of his clientele. I’m sure he’s seen guys that are amped up to their gills to transmit pics at light speed from the wilderness of Wyoming of them prevailing over a leaf-eating herd animal, with nothing more than a rifle, only to try to give the animal away to avoid any additional hassle or costs. Those are ironically the guys most in need of paying for supervision by a PH.
I’m sure Randy has contemplated that at the rate $3.50 premium factory hunting rounds are delivered to Cabelas, there's not enough game on the continent to absorb just the bullet stock on guys’ shelves that’s already more than 10 years old.
Guys actually post game camera and other videos of maimed animals trying to survive. It’s tough to see. Hunters don’t have equal skill or equipment, though. Randy and others have talked at length about minimum energy and minimum marksmanship. If I were in that line of work, I might just cut out several, very heavy silhouettes of different sizes, and see at the camp’s perimeter prior to leaving, what will and won’t fall, or even be hit, and maybe accept a few gentleman’s bets along the way.
Randy would have seen first hand the peak and decline of big game health, the expansion of our population, roads and housing, fencing, and the proliferation of fancy, expensive game-killing bullets and cheaper, more disposable magnum rifles, to saturate the closets of millions of suburbanites who can’t wait to escape the office and let out their inner survivalist, for a bit.
Randy, like professional guides, outfitters and all gunsmiths, probably has a love hate relationship with certain aspects of his clientele. I’m sure he’s seen guys that are amped up to their gills to transmit pics at light speed from the wilderness of Wyoming of them prevailing over a leaf-eating herd animal, with nothing more than a rifle, only to try to give the animal away to avoid any additional hassle or costs. Those are ironically the guys most in need of paying for supervision by a PH.
I’m sure Randy has contemplated that at the rate $3.50 premium factory hunting rounds are delivered to Cabelas, there's not enough game on the continent to absorb just the bullet stock on guys’ shelves that’s already more than 10 years old.
Guys actually post game camera and other videos of maimed animals trying to survive. It’s tough to see. Hunters don’t have equal skill or equipment, though. Randy and others have talked at length about minimum energy and minimum marksmanship. If I were in that line of work, I might just cut out several, very heavy silhouettes of different sizes, and see at the camp’s perimeter prior to leaving, what will and won’t fall, or even be hit, and maybe accept a few gentleman’s bets along the way.
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Yeah I would say 80% of mine have been 20 ish yards. Up close steep shots can be just as trick as a long shot.
I’ll listen politely to guys talk about making super long shots, but all I hear is “blah, blah, blah”. They aren’t my kind of people.
this is one of my pet peeves .I build some accurate shooting rifles benchrest guns .that are capable
of 1/4 minute put the same gun on a 360 bench and you have moa rifle put the same rifle on a
bipod. and you got a moa + and I'm not taking about prone ether . I've killed a lot deer and 3
were shot prone. brush is too high most of the time. so how do you driver your shot. I know
one the best shots in Boise area he goes 9 out ten at 1000yds sometimes 10 per 10 .two years
ago he missed a bull at 740yds.wind got him. and it gets everybody .and that's where it gets
messily. and it was good that he missed. and not wounded the animal. 6.5 c/m is to small for that
range. I watch you tube. and those guys just shoot those deer to pieces . its not way keep are sport
going. its not right . I shoot almost week guns are tuned and I still don't do it .I see it 300prc bunch
hit a 4' by4' plate at mile. so a deer at 1200 ought to be easy right! wrong!
I’ll gladly admit I’m a long range hunter and pretty good at it. Last fall I shot a cow elk at 867, mule deer at 711, doe antelope at 586, whitetail doe at 536, doe antelope 385 and some other stuff at lessor distances all with one shot. I shoot long range almost weekly during the summer months leading up to hunting season…
I'm to fat to be climbing tree's
CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
National Park Service banned me
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Theres truth to both sides of the argument. I shoot a lot of hunting rifles at 1k. Often. Couple times a week in the nicer part of the year. And I live in Montana where the elk do and the wind blows like nothing on the east coast. So to have the gear but no opportunity to practice in the conditions and ranges you want to shoot, but you plan to do it anyhow, is unethical. Shooting to your true honest abilities is not. I dont think anyone can argue that. After the 1000's of rounds I have fired at 1k in our winds, I am still not 100% confident past about 800 to do it every time. But thats me, I am sure there are guys shooting 1000s of rounds each year focusing 100% on cold bore wind calls that can do it every time. You simply cant judge someone else's skills based on your own.
About half of what I do is lr hunting rifles. I find that 95% of the guys have their heads on straight and understand the reality of it and have realistic goals. Most want to be able to take an elk at 600 yards or so which is definitely do able for most people who practice. Very few have said they want to take elk past 1k, they know they dont have to skills to do it. In the very few instances I have been asked to build a rifle either too small for the intended use or from someone who only has access to a 200yd range but plans to shoot an animal at 1k, I have declined.
Guys have been doing this out here before internet hunting forums. Its not new. The hype and advertising is. Money has driven companies to tell novices they can do it if they write a check. Thats the only problem I have with LR hunting.
About half of what I do is lr hunting rifles. I find that 95% of the guys have their heads on straight and understand the reality of it and have realistic goals. Most want to be able to take an elk at 600 yards or so which is definitely do able for most people who practice. Very few have said they want to take elk past 1k, they know they dont have to skills to do it. In the very few instances I have been asked to build a rifle either too small for the intended use or from someone who only has access to a 200yd range but plans to shoot an animal at 1k, I have declined.
Guys have been doing this out here before internet hunting forums. Its not new. The hype and advertising is. Money has driven companies to tell novices they can do it if they write a check. Thats the only problem I have with LR hunting.
Most of my "longrange" hunting is out of a flimsy box blind in the Carolinas. Getting a steady hold and a reliable sight picture under those conditions makes a 400yd-500yd shot loooongrange for me. LOL
I hunted elk in Utah a few years back. I had a nice bull present itself at just over 400yds which I thought would be easy based on all of my practice. But .................. the ground vegetation was high and it required me to sit on the ground upright with the bi-pod fully extended. I just couldn't get a good enough hold to take the shot with confidence. We managed to move in another 100yds and I was able to drop the bull from the same shooting position. When you are afield, everything is relevant.
I hunted elk in Utah a few years back. I had a nice bull present itself at just over 400yds which I thought would be easy based on all of my practice. But .................. the ground vegetation was high and it required me to sit on the ground upright with the bi-pod fully extended. I just couldn't get a good enough hold to take the shot with confidence. We managed to move in another 100yds and I was able to drop the bull from the same shooting position. When you are afield, everything is relevant.
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Go Commando with only a knife in your teeth …or Ninja ..
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
It's easy to shred an old guy who likes to hear himself talk and speak in generalities of how he thinks things are. That said - the guy doing the shredding isn't much better, advocating what "can be done", rather than the results of the average guy taking ultra-long-range shots at big game. One only need look at the scores of an average PRS match to see that not everyone who calls themselves a "long range shooter" can hit what they aim at - particularly on the first shot. In big game hunting - we want the first shot to be it.
If a guy shoots at an animal 800 yards away and the animal runs off - many would have no idea whether they hit the animal if it is not showing obvious signs, and fewer (I think) would actually attempt to find a blood trail unless they were pretty sure of a hit. Unlike the trained sniper the moderator keeps referring to, the deer hunter seldom has a "spotter" laying next to him knowledgeable dope corrections. So, do they cut up their tag and go home? Look for another animal? That is where the other half of the ethical hunt comes into play. They have far more opportunities as they can shoot at anything withing sight, almost. But at what cost in terms of a higher percentage animals lost to wounds?
I probably sound "anti-long range", but I'm not. There are hunters who lose animals at what most would consider very short range. It really all comes down to the individual's skill set - whether 50 yards or 500. Any of these arguments are kind of moot when putting everyone in a group that shares the same sport. Like little league versus Major Leaque.
If a guy shoots at an animal 800 yards away and the animal runs off - many would have no idea whether they hit the animal if it is not showing obvious signs, and fewer (I think) would actually attempt to find a blood trail unless they were pretty sure of a hit. Unlike the trained sniper the moderator keeps referring to, the deer hunter seldom has a "spotter" laying next to him knowledgeable dope corrections. So, do they cut up their tag and go home? Look for another animal? That is where the other half of the ethical hunt comes into play. They have far more opportunities as they can shoot at anything withing sight, almost. But at what cost in terms of a higher percentage animals lost to wounds?
I probably sound "anti-long range", but I'm not. There are hunters who lose animals at what most would consider very short range. It really all comes down to the individual's skill set - whether 50 yards or 500. Any of these arguments are kind of moot when putting everyone in a group that shares the same sport. Like little league versus Major Leaque.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
The guys with their heads on right know that seeing the impact is critical. The gun is built around this. This a big part of what I explain to customers. Its not about being tough and handling the recoil, its about knowing what happened. Light guns and long range are at odds.
When things go right, sometimes it's skill, sometimes it's luck. With that said you have to practice and even then things can go wrong.
Ethics is making an honest judgement about your skill level and working within your limits.
Preference is doing what you like, I've done both short and long, I prefer the hunt, the stalking, get a shot or not you get a hunt.
Ethics is making an honest judgement about your skill level and working within your limits.
Preference is doing what you like, I've done both short and long, I prefer the hunt, the stalking, get a shot or not you get a hunt.
Gargoyle
Finder Outer
That's no joke with 5.56 and 308.
I’ve shot a modest number of deer and elk at longer ranges and they have all resulted in a quick kill. Out to 500 yards I don’t dial with a 250-300 yard zero and it’s really not too difficult. Beyond that its dialing for elevation and holding windage along with verifying drops out to 6-800 to ensure dope is on before the hunt at the area I’m hunting. If the wind is much over 5-7mph, I don’t shoot at the longer ranges and luckily those opportunities are mostly early morning/late evening when the wind has died down. It’s not for everyone and I’ve build rifles for myself that do the job needed…30 cal magnums on up, 27-30” barrels with brakes.
Anyone I know personally that does engage in this activity has put a hell of a lot more time into shooting than the average hunter I know, by a long shot…and I’ll also mention I’ve seen a hell of a lot of deer wounded here in WI shooting at running game (through brush and other cover) vs not even one animal lost out west at longer distances shot. I have seen two misses, followed by a killing shot due to a good spotter though. What many don’t really realize is hunting at longer ranges doesn’t spook the game either. We can cover areas you just can’t effectively hunt because of oak brush/timber etc, terrain or whatever. If you get over there into the animals and don’t get a shot, you blow them out of the drainage. Setting up in a location looking into that cover, you can observe them at length and back out without spooking them. It has been much more effective for us and YES, I have tracked them down in timber, shot multiple elk at less than 150 yards, called them in and shot them with archery, but I am out there to put an elk in the freezer, and have found a more effective method for doing so…I don’t feel the need to apologize for that as I’ve been able to capitalize on more opportunities with a bit bigger bag of tricks.
Anyone I know personally that does engage in this activity has put a hell of a lot more time into shooting than the average hunter I know, by a long shot…and I’ll also mention I’ve seen a hell of a lot of deer wounded here in WI shooting at running game (through brush and other cover) vs not even one animal lost out west at longer distances shot. I have seen two misses, followed by a killing shot due to a good spotter though. What many don’t really realize is hunting at longer ranges doesn’t spook the game either. We can cover areas you just can’t effectively hunt because of oak brush/timber etc, terrain or whatever. If you get over there into the animals and don’t get a shot, you blow them out of the drainage. Setting up in a location looking into that cover, you can observe them at length and back out without spooking them. It has been much more effective for us and YES, I have tracked them down in timber, shot multiple elk at less than 150 yards, called them in and shot them with archery, but I am out there to put an elk in the freezer, and have found a more effective method for doing so…I don’t feel the need to apologize for that as I’ve been able to capitalize on more opportunities with a bit bigger bag of tricks.
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