Bigger bullet hole theory

[Eric Leonard]

Idk why the UBR rings need to be smaller, I’ve never been to a match that ended in a tie

 

[JEFFPPC]

Idk why the UBR rings need to be smaller, I’ve never been to a match that ended in a tie

Actually it was not the UBR targets that I had in mind so much since the have the 11 point scoring compared to the x value targets. The 30br made mediocre shooters relevant. Bigger bullets, better optics.....maybe it's time to make the target a bit tougher. Not much would be needed. Make all the scoring ring diameters smaller by just the width of the current lines would reward those with closer to center shot by not giving a point to those that just manage to touch the current lines. I feel the 11 point scoring does reward the better shots fired because it gives you a point. A point has more value than an x. Plus, you have a chance to get back into a match in the 11 point system because there are more points available. How often past 100yds to you see a 249x17 loose to a 250x9. Which shooter would you put your money on next match? I know where my money would go.

 

[JEFFPPC]

The Great Score Target Bullet Size Controversy will live forever.

Every few years this topic comes up so this pdf has it charted out for IBS/NBRSA and UBR targets.

This was done to satisfy my own curiosity and not to promote one sanctioning body over another.

The bigger bullet hole has an advantage but as the scoring rings become larger the advantage becomes less.
However, we are all trying for the X.

Merry Christmas

Thanks, very informative.

 

[Eric Leonard]

Actually it was not the UBR targets that I had in mind so much since the have the 11 point scoring compared to the x value targets. The 30br made mediocre shooters relevant. Bigger bullets, better optics.....maybe it's time to make the target a bit tougher. Not much would be needed. Make all the scoring ring diameters smaller by just the width of the current lines would reward those with closer to center shot by not giving a point to those that just manage to touch the current lines. I feel the 11 point scoring does reward the better shots fired because it gives you a point. A point has more value than an x. Plus, you have a chance to get back into a match in the 11 point system because there are more points available. How often past 100yds to you see a 249x17 loose to a 250x9. Which shooter would you put your money on next match? I know where my money would go.

I can understand that. In UBR the guy that shot 249-17 would beat the guy with 250-9

 

[jackieschmidt]

I would like to see the Varmint for Score target 10 ring shrunk to 3/8 inch with a 1/32 dot for the X.
But it’s not going to happen. The HBR shooters will still have the current target, which means Clubs that hold Matches for both Disciplines would then have to buy separate targets.

several years ago I made a proposal to make the X an 11. It was voted down. So I put a full effort in to building for the Format we have now, including making my own 30 caliber bullets. I knew the rules, and built for them.

We have several thriving Club Match programs in Texas That shoot the standard best edge scoring on a NBRSA target. Most of the shooters have invested in some type of 30 caliber.

 

[Fuj]

I can understand that. In UBR the guy that shot 249-17 would beat the guy with 250-9

Absolutely !! The 249-17 would have 8 more better centered shots.
Thus.....266 versus 259.

By the way.....What is the X-ring size on a 100 yard IBS target ??
I shoot 7mm and bumped to use the 30 cal target. which has a
.050 center dot for 100 yards.

 

[Eric Leonard]

Absolutely !! The 249-17 would have 8 more better centered shots.
Thus.....266 versus 259.

By the way.....What is the X-ring size on a 100 yard IBS target ??
I shoot 7mm and bumped to use the 30 cal target. which has a
.050 center dot for 100 yards.

I don’t shoot ibs but I think the 100 yard score target X is .0625

 

[jimmymac]

Post #100 pretty well covers it.

 

[rjtfroggy]

Without going to measure one the 10ring is 1/2" and the dot itself is 1/8th".
That is from memory on the IBS target- 100yard. Double for 200yard.

 

[jimmymac]

The Great Score Target Bullet Size Controversy will live forever.

Every few years this topic comes up so this pdf has it charted out for IBS/NBRSA and UBR targets.

This was done to satisfy my own curiosity and not to promote one sanctioning body over another.

The bigger bullet hole has an advantage but as the scoring rings become larger the advantage becomes less.
However, we are all trying for the X.

Merry Christmas

This is the best post in this thread. The pdf this gentleman provided in post #100 should be looked at by all those that are inquisitive. I'm assuming the measuring was done correctly and the math works out.

 

[Fuj]

This thread should be made a sticky.,

 

[rjtfroggy]

This is the best post in this thread. The pdf this gentleman provided in post #100 should be looked at by all those that are inquisitive. I'm assuming the measuring was done correctly and the math works out.

The gentleman that made the post is the maker of ABC barrels. They are the best I have used to date., attention to detail is second to none.

 

[jimmymac]

The gentleman that made the post is the maker of ABC barrels. They are the best I have used to date., attention to detail is second to none.

I have had a couple good ones myself.

 

[JoeDuke]

Actually, I think Jackie said it best. Know the game you are going to shoot and then build the very best you can for that competition.

 

[brcman]

I did read the original post and am aware that this post is not directly applicable to that post. However, there are other post that are related to score shooting at 100 to 300 yards that I would like to add some thoughts.

With regards to 100/200 yard IBS and NBRSA Hunter Class and VFS score matches the bigger hole theory has evolved into nearly everyone is shooting a 30 (mostly 30BR). I feel that we are overlooking something- the 30 seems to be SO dominant at 100 yards that we just seem to assume that is what we need to use at 200 yards. But I am not so sure because at 100 yards it is clearly a “X” game and I think most competitors agree, and either a 6PPC or a 30BR will shoot a 250 most anytime but the 30 has the big bullet hole “X” advantage.

But at 200 yards I am thinking we should do some thinking- it is a different game?, because I think it is more of a “10” game than a “X” game. I think a good 6PPC could have a better chance of shooting all 10’s at 200 yards than a 30BR does at 200 yards. I also shoot group matches with a 6PPC and when I started VFS shooting with a 30BR I decided the 112 and 118 grain bullets seem to get pushed by the wind at least as much as a 6PPC if not more. Maybe we should try the 30BR at 100 yards and switch to a 6PPC at 200 yards- what are thoughts from others?

By the way- in the above various post 3 different posts had comments that the 30 has the disadvantage of recoil (I agree) and I think that while in UBR they have the bulls sized to cancel out any caliber advantage it does not and cannot do anything to address the disadvantage of the recoil when shooting a 30 caliber.

Wayne Corley

 

[Fuj]

. Maybe we should try the 30BR at 100 yards and switch to a 6PPC at 200 yards- what are thoughts from others?

Wayne Corley

Probably some do if it's only a single range for match day.
We will shoot 100/200 one month then 200/300 the next
month. You register your caliber, then shoot it for both
ranges. there is no switching rifles allowed. I know several
that bring multiple rifles for match day. Conditions dictate
which one goes on the bench for the day.

 

[WyleWD]

UBR Nationals 2021 - Boyle County Fish and Game

Stay in Danville Ky. They have some nice places to eat also. You'll likely see most of us at the Cattleman steak house, there is Holiday Inn, Motel 8 and many others

forum.accurateshooter.com

I think the full results of both the 100 & 200 are on post # 36. Conditions weren't a cake walk. Notice the caliber(s) used. Some FANTASTIC shooters there. JME WD

 

[jackieschmidt]

Wayne,

I did read the original post and am aware that this post is not directly applicable to that post. However, there are other post that are related to score shooting at 100 to 300 yards that I would like to add some thoughts.

With regards to 100/200 yard IBS and NBRSA Hunter Class and VFS score matches the bigger hole theory has evolved into nearly everyone is shooting a 30 (mostly 30BR). I feel that we are overlooking something- the 30 seems to be SO dominant at 100 yards that we just seem to assume that is what we need to use at 200 yards. But I am not so sure because at 100 yards it is clearly a “X” game and I think most competitors agree, and either a 6PPC or a 30BR will shoot a 250 most anytime but the 30 has the big bullet hole “X” advantage.

But at 200 yards I am thinking we should do some thinking- it is a different game?, because I think it is more of a “10” game than a “X” game. I think a good 6PPC could have a better chance of shooting all 10’s at 200 yards than a 30BR does at 200 yards. I also shoot group matches with a 6PPC and when I started VFS shooting with a 30BR I decided the 112 and 118 grain bullets seem to get pushed by the wind at least as much as a 6PPC if not more. Maybe we should try the 30BR at 100 yards and switch to a 6PPC at 200 yards- what are thoughts from others?

By the way- in the above various post 3 different posts had comments that the 30 has the disadvantage of recoil (I agree) and I think that while in UBR they have the bulls sized to cancel out any caliber advantage it does not and cannot do anything to address the disadvantage of the recoil when shooting a 30 caliber.

Wayne Corley

Wayne, I have done that a few times. Truth is, the conditions affect a 30BR and a 6PPC about the same.

I can’t recall who said it, but the saying goes…..”the rifle wins at 100, the shooter wins at 200”.

 

[brcman]

I can’t recall who said it, but the saying goes…..”the rifle wins at 100, the shooter wins at 200”.

That is a realistic statement!

 

[JoeDuke]

I did read the original post and am aware that this post is not directly applicable to that post. However, there are other post that are related to score shooting at 100 to 300 yards that I would like to add some thoughts.

With regards to 100/200 yard IBS and NBRSA Hunter Class and VFS score matches the bigger hole theory has evolved into nearly everyone is shooting a 30 (mostly 30BR). I feel that we are overlooking something- the 30 seems to be SO dominant at 100 yards that we just seem to assume that is what we need to use at 200 yards. But I am not so sure because at 100 yards it is clearly a “X” game and I think most competitors agree, and either a 6PPC or a 30BR will shoot a 250 most anytime but the 30 has the big bullet hole “X” advantage.

But at 200 yards I am thinking we should do some thinking- it is a different game?, because I think it is more of a “10” game than a “X” game. I think a good 6PPC could have a better chance of shooting all 10’s at 200 yards than a 30BR does at 200 yards. I also shoot group matches with a 6PPC and when I started VFS shooting with a 30BR I decided the 112 and 118 grain bullets seem to get pushed by the wind at least as much as a 6PPC if not more. Maybe we should try the 30BR at 100 yards and switch to a 6PPC at 200 yards- what are thoughts from others?

By the way- in the above various post 3 different posts had comments that the 30 has the disadvantage of recoil (I agree) and I think that while in UBR they have the bulls sized to cancel out any caliber advantage it does not and cannot do anything to address the disadvantage of the recoil when shooting a 30 caliber.

Wayne Corley

I also went down this road a few years ago. What I was trying to do was build a rifle that would shoot thru the wind a bit better and give me an edge at 200 yards. So I built a 6mm Grinch with two barrels. One a 12 twist to shoot bullets in the 80 grain range and one an 8 twist to shoot the 103 / 105 class bullets. The Grinch cartridge is the 6.5 Grendel cartridge necked down to 6mm and the shoulder blown forward. In essence, it is a longer ppc cartridge. With it, I was able to basically get the ballistics offered by the 6 BRA.. I went with this cartridge because it works in an action with the ppc boltface and I have a good one. Both barrels shot well.
After shooting both these barrels a bunch, I decided that at least at 200 yards, they did not give me enough advantage over the 30BR to warrant shooting either barrel. In my case, the limiting factor is me for sure. The improvement I need has to come from the shooter, not the gun.

From looking at the results of the tackdriver match, it appears that the 30BR may be coming up short at the 300 meter distance as they have not placed well overall either year. So if we should ever contest a long range score match again, I believe the good shooting 6mm should have an advantage at the 300 yard leg.

Joe