Howa Mini 6PPC

[DDT414]

Here’s the overview on my above build.
I have to give a shout out to Hugh as he had already done this and provided assistance.

Prep
- order Howa mini
- I ordered a 6.5 grendel that was a std profile barrel with the standard stock. A heavy barrel version was available and may have saved me from hogging out the stock but it was $100 extra and I wasn’t going to use the barrel anyway.
- locate 6mm barrel
- I had bought a used barrel earlier in the summer for $20. 13 twist keiger HV profile
- chambering
- I already have 6PPC reamer for BR rifle. .269 neck PTG
- have lathe that I have used for chambering previously. Eisen 12-36 with a tru-set 3 jaw and spindle spider
- also already had a scope around but did order the proper scope mount

Actual work
- separate action from stock
- remove factory barrel (was on tight!)
- measure up barrel removed to set up ppc barrel
- I decided on a 1.05“ breech and a .750” muzzle at 20.5” length
- reset in the lathe by using test indicators on lands of both ends with breech end to be worked on
- made a fresh cut with cut off tool to remove old threads and Chamber
- did tenon thread and such, copied off other barrel to start with, my lathe does do metric threads by changing one gear. it was M22x 1.5mm
- threaded on action to confirm threads and ensure that bolt wasn’t binding on tenon
- prebored for chambering and did cutout on tenon for bolt face
- chambered with finishing reamer, used action with gauges to confirm head space.
- polished chamber with 800, 1000, 2000 paper, deburred, checked over before I swapped ends.
- swapped ends and re-indicated.
- used cutoff tool to make fresh cut on muzzle, have a dedicated insert tool that I only used for muzzles that is sharp, I do a flat crown with a flat recess around rifling
- cut a 5/8x24 thread for brake and such.
- checked over and de-burred before removing barrel from lathe
- mated action and barrel, copper anti-seize and 80 lb/ft, check head space again
- hog out stock so larger profile barrel will fit, dremel, files and sandpaper
- install stock and scope.

Ammo
- used 20x fired Lapua from my benchrest rifle. Same reamer used for both and I used a newlon resizing die that was reamed with the proper same reamer
- using 68g bt from local manufacturer Stinger Ballistics. I also use these and 64g fb for benchrest competitions
- 2018 N133 and F205M primers
- after some testing ended up at 28g and 2.137 coal, about 3250 FPS, shot a .1175 3 shot group
- mag feeds well as long as bolt is fully pulled back, added a flash suppressor so that snow can easily be tapped out when hunting
- so far works excellent
- photos below, no I don’t operate a gun shop, just was showing it to some buddies at the local store.


-

 

[No manches"]

Brother"..bare with me!.I will bombard you with several questions.
#1 what leade/freebore is your reamer?
Since I have never owned or seen a PPC case, but I've heard that is a 220 Russian case necked up.
#2 can 7.62x39 brass be used?
Since I will only use my rifle for long range varminting and won't use anything bigger that 70grn bullet.
#3 10twist or 12twist barrel?
#4 are you using the OEM trigger?.......

 

[DDT414]

Brother"..bare with me!.I will bombard you with several questions.
#1 what leade/freebore is your reamer?
Since I have never owned or seen a PPC case, but I've heard that is a 220 Russian case necked up.
#2 can 7.62x39 brass be used?
Since I will only use my rifle for long range varminting and won't use anything bigger that 70grn bullet.
#3 10twist or 12twist barrel?
#4 are you using the OEM trigger?.......

No problem

1 - attached Is my reamer print, limited freebore as we generally shoot 60 - 70 grain bullets in short range benchrest.
2 - I believe that the bolt head on 7.62x39 will work but I’ve never heard of anyone using 7.62x39 brass fire formed for 6PPC. Yes most benchrest shooters use 220 Russian that is necked up and fire formed. Norma does make 6PPC brass that I have tried but wasn’t as durable as lapua for the higher pressures used in competitive benchrest but the Norma would likely work well for varmit.
3 - most short range benchrest shooters are using 13 - 14 twist which works fine with 68g bullets and should be fine with 70’s.
4 - yes this gun has the factory trigger that I adjusted down to around 2 lbs.

happy to help

 

[No manches"]

By golly,.. you have just convinced me!. Next question, available dies,..from who?
I see your neck turning your brass". For a no turn neck 0.271? Or 0.272?
If no one has neck down 7.62x39 brass..guess I'll be the first to do". Eventhough large primer pockets can't handle high pressure.
Thanks on the heads up on 6ppc Norma brass! Just in case x39 brass wont work.
I usually like to spin my bullets faster than needed.
I have on hand a wilson 6mm 12 twist on hand #4 contour..bought a while back from raggedhole.com on one of their sales, not that I am cheap" but I would like to use what I got.

In the picture of your stock I see you didn't fill the inner stock with epoxy to make the stock more ridged, them stock's are prone to flexing.
I'll take a photo of any of mine and show what I do. Maybe it can help you.

 

[DDT414]

By golly,.. you have just convinced me!. Next question, available dies,..from who?
I see your neck turning your brass". For a no turn neck 0.271? Or 0.272?
If no one has neck down 7.62x39 brass..guess I'll be the first to do". Eventhough large primer pockets can't handle high pressure.
Thanks on the heads up on 6ppc Norma brass! Just in case x39 brass wont work.
I usually like to spin my bullets faster than needed.
I have on hand a wilson 6mm 12 twist on hand #4 contour..bought a while back from raggedhole.com on one of their sales, not that I am cheap" but I would like to use what I got.

In the picture of your stock I see you didn't fill the inner stock with epoxy to make the stock more rigged, them stock's are prone to flexing.
I'll take a photo of any of mine and show what I do. Maybe it can help you.

Glad to help!
Yes I do neck turn, what reamer spec required for a no turn will depend on your brass, I believe that the Norma brass has a thinner factory neck than lapua. In general the loaded neck diameter should be at least 2 - 3 thousand smaller than your reamer / chamber spec.

Yes a 12 twist should work fine with 70g, especially if that’s what you got.

For a varmit load at 28g of n133 I show no pressure signs, so large primers may not be an issue. I use to have loose primer issues on my br gun as we generally load at around 30g of n133 but after going to the newlon custom sizer die problem went away.

Please put up a picture of your epoxy upgrade. I may do it but currently I’m around 8 lbs on the setup and not sure I want the extra weight. If I start having accuracy issues its good to know.

Thanks

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Nice

I built a no-turn 20 PPC on a Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel barreled action. Howa Mini is a great action.

I got the trigger spring kit out of Australia and trimmed down the trigger housing mounting bolt to allow lighter pull weight adjustment. With those upgrades the factory trigger is very nice.

I also did the aluminum aftermarket bottom metal. Definitely worth the upgrade over the factory polymer. Makes the rifle feel like a premium piece.

Bought a Whidden 22 PPC FL bushing sizing die and use 20 cal neck bushings in it. Wilson had a 20 PPC in-line seater so went that route there. Both work great. Have to neck down to 22 cal using the appropriate bushing before going down to 20 cal so it’s a two step forming process. If I try to go down to 20 cal from 6mm in one shot it will crush shoulders most of the time.

All ready to rock but haven’t shot it yet. Should be a real tack driver. Can’t wait to blow up some dog towns with it next spring

 

[No manches"]

Love the stock..good deal" it's funny you should mention a 20 cal. 4 weeks ago I recieved my 20-223 Ackley improved and have barely shot to fireform brass and first load development..
20's are a wholesome little things.

 

[boltfluter]

Here’s the overview on my above build.
I have to give a shout out to Hugh as he had already done this and provided assistance.

Prep
- order Howa mini
- I ordered a 6.5 grendel that was a std profile barrel with the standard stock. A heavy barrel version was available and may have saved me from hogging out the stock but it was $100 extra and I wasn’t going to use the barrel anyway.
- locate 6mm barrel
- I had bought a used barrel earlier in the summer for $20. 13 twist keiger HV profile
- chambering
- I already have 6PPC reamer for BR rifle. .269 neck PTG
- have lathe that I have used for chambering previously. Eisen 12-36 with a tru-set 3 jaw and spindle spider
- also already had a scope around but did order the proper scope mount

Actual work
- separate action from stock
- remove factory barrel (was on tight!)
- measure up barrel removed to set up ppc barrel
- I decided on a 1.05“ breech and a .750” muzzle at 20.5” length
- reset in the lathe by using test indicators on lands of both ends with breech end to be worked on
- made a fresh cut with cut off tool to remove old threads and Chamber
- did tenon thread and such, copied off other barrel to start with, my lathe does do metric threads by changing one gear. it was M22x 1.5mm
- threaded on action to confirm threads and ensure that bolt wasn’t binding on tenon
- prebored for chambering and did cutout on tenon for bolt face
- chambered with finishing reamer, used action with gauges to confirm head space.
- polished chamber with 800, 1000, 2000 paper, deburred, checked over before I swapped ends.
- swapped ends and re-indicated.
- used cutoff tool to make fresh cut on muzzle, have a dedicated insert tool that I only used for muzzles that is sharp, I do a flat crown with a flat recess around rifling
- cut a 5/8x24 thread for brake and such.
- checked over and de-burred before removing barrel from lathe
- mated action and barrel, copper anti-seize and 80 lb/ft, check head space again
- hog out stock so larger profile barrel will fit, dremel, files and sandpaper
- install stock and scope.

Ammo
- used 20x fired Lapua from my benchrest rifle. Same reamer used for both and I used a newlon resizing die that was reamed with the proper same reamer
- using 68g bt from local manufacturer Stinger Ballistics. I also use these and 64g fb for benchrest competitions
- 2018 N133 and F205M primers
- after some testing ended up at 28g and 2.137 coal, about 3250 FPS, shot a .1175 3 shot group
- mag feeds well as long as bolt is fully pulled back, added a flash suppressor so that snow can easily be tapped out when hunting
- so far works excellent
- photos below, no I don’t operate a gun shop, just was showing it to some buddies at the local store.

View attachment 1293554View attachment 1293555View attachment 1293556View attachment 1293557View attachment 1293558View attachment 1293559
-

What a cool little rifle! Should be great hiking in the hills.

Paul

 

[longbow]

Howa will be chambering the 6mm ARC...that should be a nice walking gun! Nice build to both of you guys!
I bought the 6.5 grendel heavy barreled action from Brownells a couple years back,used the same two tone brown/black stock.Cut back magazine,Aussie trigger job.One shot ,clean for 10 ten shots ,cleaned right up.Shoots 3/8" groups 100 yds Sierra 207's.....

 

[No manches"]

Ran around town yesterday after work through my local gun shops. And found me a box of 6ppc Norma brass 50cnt will load a 70grn nosler Btip on it to set freebore to magazine length. I'll check neck diameter with loaded bullet and send out to JGS for a reamer.

So from here on"..time is on my side!
Thanks DDT414...(you little DEVIL".)
I'll take apart one of my Howa's tonight and post a picture of the stock!.

 

[Rtheurer]

I ordered a 6.5 Grendel Barreled action off of Brownells. Took the barrel off and chambered up two X caliber barrels. One in 6mm Fat Rat. Basically a 6PPC improved or what now is the 6mm ARC. The other is a 224 Grendel or again Basically a 22PPC improved. They are all pretty close to each other in performance. I started with the Boys Thumbhole Varminter. But did not like the skinny grip despite my love for a thumbhole stock. So I got the more conventional Varminter none thumbhole in Blue. Then Ran across the MDT Chassis which is what it is wearing now.
the 224 Grendel is a little terror. With a 24" barrel and Norma 6PPC brass i can run 88gr ELD's at 3000fps. Run those numbers against a 6.5 Creed the wonder cartridge and see how it compares. Any Cartridge with the PPC or Grendel case head works great in these little rifles. My 6mm Fat Rat will run the same speed as a 6BR with the 105gr class of bullets. Plus you dont have to open up the bolt face.
I installed a Timney Trigger for a Howa 1500. It bolted right in.

 

[No manches"]

I ordered a 6.5 Grendel Barreled action off of Brownells. Took the barrel off and chambered up two X caliber barrels. One in 6mm Fat Rat. Basically a 6PPC improved or what now is the 6mm ARC. The other is a 224 Grendel or again Basically a 22PPC improved. They are all pretty close to each other in performance. I started with the Boys Thumbhole Varminter. But did not like the skinny grip despite my love for a thumbhole stock. So I got the more conventional Varminter none thumbhole in Blue. Then Ran across the MDT Chassis which is what it is wearing now.
the 224 Grendel is a little terror. With a 24" barrel and Norma 6PPC brass i can run 88gr ELD's at 3000fps. Run those numbers against a 6.5 Creed the wonder cartridge and see how it compares. Any Cartridge with the PPC or Grendel case head works great in these little rifles. My 6mm Fat Rat will run the same speed as a 6BR with the 105gr class of bullets. Plus you dont have to open up the bolt face.
I installed a Timney Trigger for a Howa 1500. It bolted right in.

This exactly why I've decided to make it a 6ppc..
Get away from opening up the bolt face, not that is big deal.
But hey if I can save some money*.
Heard a lot of the fat rat" never seen it in person.
But from what i can tell it's very similar to my 6mmBPC and yes they can run next to the wonder creed. 95grn SMK and all I can say is wow!.
Ever tried to neck down 7.62x39 to PPC?..
I'm gonna try*

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I have a 243 LBC Turbo 40 as well. Cool little PPC based round. Basically a PPC “Dasher”. Shoulder blown forward a long ways and improved to 40 degrees. Though the rifle is built on a heavily customized single shot Rem 722 action with a 1K BR laminated stock.

From PPC brass I neck up to 6.5mm, set false shoulder using FL sizing die, turn necks, fireform twice. Same process as making 6 Dasher cases from 6BR. But one advantage of my 243 LBC T40 is I can also make cases from 6.5 Grendel brass and don’t need to neck up to make a false shoulder. Just set the false shoulder right away in the FL die then turn necks and fireform.

Left to right:
Virgin 6 PPC, Virgin 6.5 Grendel, False shoulder set on 6.5 Grendel brass with neck turned, Fireformed 243 LBC T40, 6mm Dasher.

 

[No manches"]

From left to right.
22 nosler custom long throated, 6PPC fresh case with 70grn nosler Btip, 6mmBPC, 6BR & last 6BRA.

 

[No manches"]

As I promised DDT414 here are the pictures of the stocks filled with clear epoxy and if you can tell I added steel stick on wheel weights to add some lbs to the front..
Both of these rifles carry a #4 contour barrel. If you dont want to add weight , fine and dandy!.
But the epoxy will and does make it more ridged!

 

[No manches"]

By the way I did find a very old thread here on the forum. Of people necking down the 7.62x39 case to PPC..
Got to give that a try!

 

[Ledd Slinger]

By the way I did find a very old thread here on the forum. Of people necking down the 7.62x39 case to PPC..
Got to give that a try!

That’s a long ways down. Would be a pain and neck walls would be very thick when you get there. If you want to use Lapua brass on the PPC, it’s much better to opt for 220 Russian brass and neck up to 6mm in one pass with a sizing die expander ball or expanding mandrel die than it is to fight with necking down the 30 cal 7.62x39 brass. The PPC likes to shoot best with thin neck walls and light tension. That’s why Norma made their PPC USA brass with .011” neck walls. Nice thin walls to start with and some folks even turn them down a good bit thinner than that

 

[No manches"]

That’s a long ways down. Would be a pain and neck walls would be very thick when you get there. If you want to use Lapua brass on the PPC, it’s much better to opt for 220 Russian brass and neck up to 6mm in one pass with a sizing die expander ball or expanding mandrel die than it is to fight with necking down the 30 cal 7.62x39 brass. The PPC likes to shoot best with thin neck walls and light tension. That’s why Norma made their PPC USA brass with .011” neck walls. Nice thin walls to start with and some folks even turn them down a good bit thinner than that

You really think that it will be an issue neckdown the x39 brass to PPC?...I have done it quite easily and with good results from x39 to 6.5 grendel*. By the way the 6mmBPC is a neckdown grendel and I have also neckdown x39 to 6mm, though the large primer pockets and low powder capacity make the brass useless.
Have never push the necks so far down as to copy the long neck of the PPC case..uhmm I need to se it on my own. If it dont work ,hell it don't work".

 

[Ledd Slinger]

You really think that it will be an issue neckdown the x39 brass to PPC?...I have done it quite easily and with good results from x39 to 6.5 grendel*. By the way the 6mmBPC is a neckdown grendel and I have also neckdown x39 to 6mm, though the large primer pockets and low powder capacity make the brass useless.
Have never push the necks so far down as to copy the long neck of the PPC case..uhmm I need to se it on my own. If it dont work ,hell it don't work".

Not saying you can’t do it because people have done it before. There’s just no sense in going thru the trouble of forming 7.62x39 when there’s 220 Russian brass out there.

 

[No manches"]

I see your point"..no argumentative comment.
Very understandable, the only reason I wanted to use x39 brass Is cause I tend to lose lots in the fields while squirrel hunting.
It'll hurt more if I lose lapua brass!.