WWII 50-cal Aircraft Armament

[Infrequent Shooter]

Some. I once met both Gregory "Pappy" Boyington and Masajiro "Mike" Kawato (who claimed to have shot Boyington down) at the Reno Air Races, and bought autographed books from them.

For air combat TV drama, I liked the earlier Twelve O'Clock High better, but the feature film starring Gregory Peck, upon which it was based was, much, much better. Gut-wrenching. The Eighth Air Force lost more lives than the entire Marine Corps in WW II. Only 35% of the Eighth's airmen survived to complete their 25-mission requirement in 1942-'43.
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'Black Thursday' non fiction book about WWII bombing raid in Eurpoean Theater. Very good read.

 

[NV_Dmax]

My Grandfather was a mechanic on these planes and he would tell me stories about the nuances in the different planes he worked on and what certain pilots wanted. Unfortunately that generation is dwindling and my grandpa died in the 90’s. I think historians would be well served to track down any living mechanics to get their side of the stories as well before they’ve passed.

 

[NV_Dmax]

My Mom installed fuel tanks in P-47's in Evansville, Indiana while my Dad was a waist gunner on a B-17 flying out of Chelveston, England. The Greatest Generation. Gone but not forgotten.

Can’t be reiterated enough.

 

[NV_Dmax]

All -

Howdy !

The expression....... " Gave him the whole nine yards "..... stems from use of the .50 cal machine gun on aircraft. The ammo was provided in 9yd long belts. If the pilot shot it all, he gave the target " the whole nine yards ".

Std7mag -

My Dad was a command pilot w/ the 310th Bomb Group, 428th Bomb Squadron; based in Gisonacia Corsica in WWII. He flew B-25C, -D, -G; and finally the superb B-25J model for a total of 70 combat missions.

The B-25G had the 75mm canon installed, and 2ea .50's in the nose. The B-25Hs predominantly went to the Marine Corps. Pop flew a few " sea sweeps " using the -G, looking for and attacking Gernan naval targets of opportunity.

On B-25s, the packet guns weren't always used, sometimes even being removed in the field. The top turret could be fixed to fire fwd on some models.

The glazed nose -J became the most highly produced model, and was a great platform for bombing. Dad got to name his "J " " Hoosier Gal ", in honor of his girlfriend ( and ultimately my Mother ) back home.
Most of Pops' missions were bombing sorties against bridges, rail road tunnels, aqueducts; and massed troops... the latter performed w/ 25lb fragmentation bombs.

The German " flak 88 " was the nemesis of the Europe-Africa-Mid East based B-25s. Dad's ship often returned home w/ numerous flak holes in it ( one time over 200 ). He also had to fly back form Avignon France after mission 69 on one engine; with a card table sized hole through one wing. That's around 440mi w/ " one turnin '..... one burnin ' ". His gunner did manage to down one ME-109 w/ those .50s. They sent him right back to Avignon the next day, in a different ship... for his 70th and last mission. The German gunners weren't any happier that the B-25s showed up, than they were the day before !

Pop was awarded the " Distinguished Flying Cross " , which is 3 medals to the right of the " Medal of Honor "
( since " Legion of Merits " aren't usually multiple awards ), and 7 " Air Medals "; amongst others.

Didn't mean to digress !


With regards,
357Mag

Spectacular.
Thank you for this post.

 

[Bob3700]

All -

Howdy !

The expression....... " Gave him the whole nine yards "..... stems from use of the .50 cal machine gun on aircraft. The ammo was provided in 9yd long belts. If the pilot shot it all, he gave the target " the whole nine yards ".

Std7mag -

My Dad was a command pilot w/ the 310th Bomb Group, 428th Bomb Squadron; based in Gisonacia Corsica in WWII. He flew B-25C, -D, -G; and finally the superb B-25J model for a total of 70 combat missions.

The B-25G had the 75mm canon installed, and 2ea .50's in the nose. The B-25Hs predominantly went to the Marine Corps. Pop flew a few " sea sweeps " using the -G, looking for and attacking Gernan naval targets of opportunity.

On B-25s, the packet guns weren't always used, sometimes even being removed in the field. The top turret could be fixed to fire fwd on some models.

The glazed nose -J became the most highly produced model, and was a great platform for bombing. Dad got to name his "J " " Hoosier Gal ", in honor of his girlfriend ( and ultimately my Mother ) back home.
Most of Pops' missions were bombing sorties against bridges, rail road tunnels, aqueducts; and massed troops... the latter performed w/ 25lb fragmentation bombs.

The German " flak 88 " was the nemesis of the Europe-Africa-Mid East based B-25s. Dad's ship often returned home w/ numerous flak holes in it ( one time over 200 ). He also had to fly back form Avignon France after mission 69 on one engine; with a card table sized hole through one wing. That's around 440mi w/ " one turnin '..... one burnin ' ". His gunner did manage to down one ME-109 w/ those .50s. They sent him right back to Avignon the next day, in a different ship... for his 70th and last mission. The German gunners weren't any happier that the B-25s showed up, than they were the day before !

Pop was awarded the " Distinguished Flying Cross " , which is 3 medals to the right of the " Medal of Honor "
( since " Legion of Merits " aren't usually multiple awards ), and 7 " Air Medals "; amongst others.

Didn't mean to digress !


With regards,
357Mag

Thought you might like to know where the expression "Balls to the wall" came from.

The WWII multi engined aircraft had different shaped balls on the throttles, prop controls, and the fuel mixture control levers. When the throttle was wide open, prop in high RPM position, and fuel was full rich, the "Balls, on the engine controls, where To the Firewall". Max performance therefore was "Balls to the Wall".

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Here's a really good video of something you just don't see everyday at your local airport. Back in the day every fighter base had an area called the "gun butts". It was usually at the far end of the base and there was a berm about 30 or so feet tall. It had facilities to jack up and tie down the aircraft to check and synchronize the guns. If I remember right most fighter pilots wanted their guns to converge at about 250 yards for maximum effectiveness. If you notice in the video his guns are not converging on the target as it looks like he is not 250 yards away.

 

[Bob3700]

Here's a really good video of something you just don't see everyday at your local airport. Back in the day every fighter base had an area called the "gun butts". It was usually at the far end of the base and there was a berm about 30 or so feet tall. It had facilities to jack up and tie down the aircraft to check and synchronize the guns. If I remember right most fighter pilots wanted their guns to converge at about 250 yards for maximum effectiveness. If you notice in the video his guns are not converging on the target as it looks like he is not 250 yards away.

It would be interested to know where that aircraft is located. Owning complete and intact 50 cal. machine guns in an aircraft is probably a lot of ATF paperwork. In addition, I am not sure if there are any FAA regulations concerning that issue or that you could fly around with those intact guns installed in the aircraft. It may be possible that they just installed and fired the guns to see if all the aircraft systems would function properly. There is no video of the aircraft flying and firing the guns.
Perhaps, the ATF only needs the proper paperwork and fees completed and don't care where the guns are mounted. I would love to know the details.
Bob

 

[Rsadams]

I wish our country had men and women of that caliber today! (no pun intended)

Agree 100%

 

[Shooter13]

Anybody that watched the black sheep TV show as a youngster.

Never missed an episode

 

[spencerhenry]

I don't have a bucket list per se, but it is my dream to fly a Corsair someday. I know a guy that has one, but pretty tough to expect a guy to let someone else fly his couple million dollar airplane. Especially one that is irreplaceable, and known to be a handful to land.

 

[Brians356]

Here's a really good video of something you just don't see everyday at your local airport. Back in the day every fighter base had an area called the "gun butts". It was usually at the far end of the base and there was a berm about 30 or so feet tall. It had facilities to jack up and tie down the aircraft to check and synchronize the guns. If I remember right most fighter pilots wanted their guns to converge at about 250 yards for maximum effectiveness.

If you review the segment of the video I posted he referred to "harmonizing the guns". They don't actually all converge to a point, but rather to a circular patch, or two overlapping circular patches like a "lazy 8". So in a sense it's akin to patterning a shotgun at a certain range.
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[Brians356]

Some. I once met both Gregory "Pappy" Boyington and Masajiro "Mike" Kawato (who claimed to have shot Boyington down) at the Reno Air Races, and bought autographed books from them.

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[dave@aDave]

My Mom installed fuel tanks in P-47's in Evansville, Indiana while my Dad was a waist gunner on a B-17 flying out of Chelveston, England. The Greatest Generation. Gone but not forgotten.

My Mother also worked at Republic Aircraft in Evansville, Ind. I'm not sure what job she had there while Dad flew PBY Catalinas in the the South Pacific and later PB4Y-2 Privateers from Shemya Island, Aleutian Chain (land of the 60 mph fog). The PB4Y-2's carried 12 .50 caliber machine guns.

 

[D Coots]

Thank you for sharing your dad's contribution to freedom. As with yours, mine too, was awarded the DFC and 7 Air Medals, although much later than when piston powered aircraft ruled the skies.

My dad enlisted in 1952, and started in aircraft maintenance as a technician on KC-97s at Smoky Hill AFB, KS, (where I was born) then to B-47s, when assigned to Thule Greenland was on board a C-54 when it crashed in a snowstorm (I was a year old when that happened).

After 14yrs, my dad was accepted for C-141 flight engineer school, and in 1967, was assigned to McChord AFB, WA where he remained until retirement in 1977. He loved the Starlifter, and as Star Trek's Scotty would say, "No bloody A, B, C, or D..."

To preserve his memory, I penned his bio which is memorialized on the 40th Bomb Wing's website.

You speak of Tuhle Greenland. My Dad spent 6 months there helping build the air base. Bought a brand new 1953 Plymouth when he got back home.

I have a pic of him on a Harley in 1944 when he was in the Air Force.

 

[Medic505]

My Mother also worked at Republic Aircraft in Evansville, Ind. I'm not sure what job she had there while Dad flew PBY Catalinas in the the South Pacific and later PB4Y-2 Privateers from Shemya Island, Aleutian Chain (land of the 60 mph fog). The PB4Y-2's carried 12 .50 caliber machine guns.

We found pay stubs from Republic Aircraft 1942-1943, my Mother was making .37 cents per hour. She said "it was like being rich"!

 

[PhilC]

You speak of Tuhle Greenland. My Dad spent 6 months there helping build the air base. Bought a brand new 1953 Plymouth when he got back home.

I have a pic of him on a Harley in 1944 when he was in the Air Force.

Somewhere I have a picture of the C-54 crash site in Greenland.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Thule Greenland. A girl behind every tree.

 

[Tommie]

Thought you might like to know where the expression "Balls to the wall" came from.

The WWII multi engined aircraft had different shaped balls on the throttles, prop controls, and the fuel mixture control levers. When the throttle was wide open, prop in high RPM position, and fuel was full rich, the "Balls, on the engine controls, where To the Firewall". Max performance therefore was "Balls to the Wall".

On an episode of Jay Leno’s Garage, Jay was demonstrating a steam engine’s operation. He said that “balls to the wall” referred to the spinning balls on the governor spinning at maximum orbit and, therefore, the engine is running at full speed. I have no clue (or real interest) if Leno is correct but it certainly was an interesting story.

 

[Brians356]

On an episode of Jay Leno’s Garage, Jay was demonstrating a steam engine’s operation. He said that “balls to the wall” referred to the spinning balls on the governor spinning at maximum orbit and, therefore, the engine is running at full speed. I have no clue (or real interest) if Leno is correct but it certainly was an interesting story.

I tend to accept the ball-topped throttle levers full forward towards the firewall explanation. The phrase "to the wall" makes no sense WRT the spinning governor weights. A sawbuck sez I'm right.
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[divingin]

A sawbuck sez I'm right.

No help here...

Here's Why 'Balls To The Wall' Is Actually An Engineering Expression - Jalopnik

The expression “balls to the wall” has far less to do with male anatomy and quite possibly far more to do with the mechanical engineering genius of the steam engine.

jalopnik.com

balls to the wall - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

I personally go with the aviation thing.