Sweets Corrosion Test on Barrel Stub

[Dusty Stevens]

yesterday after i started another penny test. it must be the penny, because a 1975 penny sat overnight in a soaked rag and i see no discernable damage after 12 hours.

Maybe a better test would be a bullet

 

[Fuj]

Dusty, I have heard this frosted report several times. I have yet to hear some one say I did it, it gave my barrel a frosted look, it did not shoot anymore. Not on a hunting rifle but a better than 1/4 in gun shot and tested by an actual competitive shooter. To much I read this my 3 cousin by my half brothers neighbor. Ya know. I have been leaving Sweets over night for at least 10 yrs and 20 or so barrels. Never a problem.

Atta-boy !! I've never seen the frosting myself, and I have
soaked a few. That barrel I cut the muzzle and tenon off
is currently full of sweets and plugged. When I'm done with
it, it will be at one of Jeff's matches. I like witnesses.....LOL

As for Sweets drying out ?? The stuff is a syrup, and gets
thicker as it's left in the open. As time goes on, you basically
have a thick mess with the ammonia gone out of it. That has
been my findings.

 

[M-61]

1944–1946	gilding metal (95% copper, 5% zinc)	48 grains
1947–1962	bronze (95% copper, 5% tin and zinc)	48 grains
1962–1982	gilding metal (95% copper, 5% zinc)	48 grains
1982–present	copper-plated zinc (97.5% zinc, 2.5% copper)	38.6 grains

 

[BoydAllen]

A little reading:

https://szbarrels.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf?ver=HsveiaoPD4Wz6fMSqzGVYw%3D%3D

 

[ballisticxlr]

Your test had nothing to do with the conditions when actually cleaning a barrel. When you put Sweets in a barrel, using a patch, or brush for that matter, the Sweets can evaporate as it sits there, changing the concentration of the ammonia, and there is fouling that it reacts with.

Nor was I trying to replicate said conditions. The question at the time was, is Sweet's itself directly harmful to barrel steel. For 416R the answer was no.

 

[johara1]

A little reading:

https://szbarrels.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf?ver=HsveiaoPD4Wz6fMSqzGVYw%3D%3D

I would like to see it take .020 to .050 off a year, what a joke why would you reference something that stupid.... jim

 

[BoydAllen]

I would like to see it take .020 to .050 off a year, what a joke why would you reference something that stupid.... jim

As far as rate per year goes, I think that it was a reference to continuous exposure. As far as stupid goes, I do not think that that word fits Jim Borden. Do you disagree?

 

[JEFFPPC]

As far as rate per year goes, I think that it was a reference to continuous exposure. As far as stupid goes, I do not think that that word fits Jim Borden. Do you disagree?

If the article is saying it's turning a .243 barrel into a near .30 cal barrel it leaves me shaking my head . I printed and read this article which seems to be from the 90's as that is the time frame of the reference articles.The reference of amount of barrel wear did NOT come from Jim Borden but from the author of the article. In reference to his expertise this statement from the last paragraph of the article your referencing says it all. I Quote ......"My personal practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels." I think you need better information to try and make a point This article is crap.

 

[BoydAllen]

If the article is saying it's turning a .243 barrel into a near .30 cal barrel it leaves me shaking my head . I printed and read this article which seems to be from the 90's as that is the time frame of the reference articles.The reference of amount of barrel wear did NOT come from Jim Borden but from the author of the article. In reference to his expertise this statement from the last paragraph of the article your referencing says it all. I Quote ......"My personal practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels." I think you need better information to try and make a point This article is crap.

Yea, in glancing over the article before my reply, I obviously got in too much of hurry. Good catch. Back then, there was a tendency to use more than one bore cleaner and there were legitimate reports of problems that resulted. In this reread, I finished the article, and the last paragraph or two just killed the author's personal credibility, especially combined with his earlier advice against brushing.

 

[LCazador]

I was told that Sweets had Lye in it.

My p. dog shooting partner and I were huge users of Sweets after we had brushed with JB, after a long hard day on the red hot dog towns. He liked is 6% Coors after a long hot day.

His nose would run and he would wipe his nose. The next morning, he had scabs on his nose and face where he had got sweets on his hands transferred from the cleaning rod.

Shooting 600-1100 rounds of centerfire per day with many soakings of sweets, did produce some surface etching, but our only alternative was Blue Goop...remember that stuff?

We continued using Sweets, but neutralized it with two sopping wet patches of lighter fluid, and a 15 minute Sweets soak was max, less in hot barrels. We had access to a medical devise that looked like a modern day Hawkeye Bore scope.

We felt like leaving Sweets in the barrel for no longer than necessary was OK for a super accurate varmint rifle, but there was a cost to the ID surface finish if you forgot and left it in longer. I have not seen this effect with Montana Extreme copper killer.

Ammonia has a PH of 11 and skin has a PH of 6. So you can imagine the damage that occurs when skin comes in contact with any solution with a PH higher than 6. I believe Sweets starts with 5% ammonia and has some surfactants added for lubrication and penetration of the solvent. As far as neutralizing Sweets one can use a product with opposing PH like peroxide with a PH of 4 to neutralize any ammonia that is left. I don't think the lighter fluid would do any thing other than dilute the Sweets left in the barrel.

 

[JEFFPPC]

With us old old guys two heads are better than one sometimes, lol. Cleaning threads are more fun than political threads. Maybe they are the political threads of the shooting world. Along with muzzle brakes, bench height, bronze vs nylon brushes.......the list goes on...and on.

 

[johara1]

I'm breaking a couple barrels in and I'm using Sweets, maybe I better check with the TP. engineer first..... jim

 

[rayporter]

so i did a bullet and a bullet was etched severely overnight.

 

[ACF]

First of all, let's get some things here correct. Ammonia is a gas, not a liquid. When ammonia is dissolved in water by bubbling the gas through the water it is called ammonium hydroxide. If you would leave your bottle of ammonium hydroxide open the ammonia will evaporate from the solution. Ammonia is a base and can react with acids and make a complex, such as reacting with a fatty acid to make an ammonium salt. This is what I read that was used in Hoppes. Fatty acids are derived from vegetable oils or animal fats and are what have oily properties.

As far as neutralizing the sweets using an aliphatic solvent or an alcohol, that's not going to neutralize the ammonia, but, it will remove the sweets from your barrel. An acid is needed to neutralize the ammonia just like what hoppes does with fatty acids. If you leave your bottle of hoppes/sweets open, eventually the ammonia will also evaporate. Ammonia is a base, so to neutralize it one must use an acid, your basic acid/base reaction. One must realize that fatty acids are weak acids not anything like mineral acids which are strong acids that definatly will eat metal.

I've taken the highest conc. of ammonium hydroxide which was around 32-34% ammonia and soaked 416 stainless in it for weeks and saw no effect. Took the same and placed some on 416SS and let it evaporate and saw no ill effects.

As far as hoppes /ammonia based cleaners doing damage to 416SS I'm not buying it.

Just my observations.

Chris

 

[rijndael]

As far as hoppes /ammonia based cleaners doing damage to 416SS I'm not buying it.

Almost all of the Hoppes stories of damage I've heard have been around plated metals, usually nickel.

 

[Michael Huebner]

Atta-boy !! I've never seen the frosting myself, and I have
soaked a few. That barrel I cut the muzzle and tenon off
is currently full of sweets and plugged. When I'm done with
it, it will be at one of Jeff's matches. I like witnesses.....LOL

As for Sweets drying out ?? The stuff is a syrup, and gets
thicker as it's left in the open. As time goes on, you basically
have a thick mess with the ammonia gone out of it. That has
been my findings.

Plugging it! I am pretty sure it needs to be in open air to have reaction.

I remember years ago a BR shooter here in Australia did tests on Sweets and concluded that it’s effectiveness lasted about 10mins and was even less in a warm/hot barrel whilst shooting, as it evaporates.

damage? Nil measurable or visible damage. If I recall this was looking at barrel under some sort of microscope for damage.

Do I use it? Not often, but not because I think it does any damage

 

[JEFFPPC]

Plugging it! I am pretty sure it needs to be in open air to have reaction.

I remember years ago a BR shooter here in Australia did tests on Sweets and concluded that it’s effectiveness lasted about 10mins and was even less in a warm/hot barrel whilst shooting, as it evaporates.

damage? Nil measurable or visible damage. If I recall this was looking at barrel under some sort of microscope for damage.

Do I use it? Not often, but not because I think it does any damage

Very easy to test Michael. Take a barrel wuth say 20 rounds fired and run a paych through and let soak for 10 min. then run a clean patch through, well will call that exhibt A. Now run a second patch through and let it sit over night. Run a vlean patch through, we will call it Exhobt B. Compare A vs. B. I think you will see the ""story" is garbage. Not hard to test and learn for yourself.

 

[Fuj]

Plugging it! I am pretty sure it needs to be in open air to have reaction.

No air is needed. The reaction is between the copper and ammonia.
The plugging prevents the ammonia from evaporating, and let it
chemically do it's job. There will be a point that if the copper is so bad
that the ammonia will have reacted out of solution. At that point you may
get a false patch reading saying it's clean with copper, when it is not,
although I've never needed to do a second application using Sweets.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Salvaging a well worn and used Bartlein for a mule fire forming
barrel. I took about 5/8th off the muzzle where the scope said I
needed to. After viewing the Sweets thread again, I figured that
muzzle cut off would make good, for a dog and pony show.
Now like what says on the bottle; Don't leave in the barrel longer
then 15 minutes. I'll post up a pic after 24 hours

FORUM Boss: Here is a copper penny soaked for 12 hours, posted by Forum member Fuj later in this thread:

View attachment 1237688

Here's that 1956-D penny I soaked for 12 hours. I chose it because of sharpness it still had, and real copper, and not the newer plated pennies. Sharpness is gone and etched surface. If I went 6 months, I
would bet the penny would be gone.

Threw my Sweet's away years ago. Bad JuJu on my barrels.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Threw my Sweet's away years ago. Bad JuJu on my barrels.

And it did what to them, or were you listening to some experts opinion who heard it or read it "some where".