Sweets Corrosion Test on Barrel Stub

[johara1]

1/4 MOA at close range is not great for an LR BR rifle in good conditions. Yes, there are barrels that are competitive past 1200 rounds but almost all will make it to 1200, so that is a reasonable expectation for minimum accuracy life in LR BR in 6BRA and 300 WSM.

We are hard on barrels in NBRSA LR BR and it has nothing to do with how they are cleaned. We get them hot and we keep shooting. Most of us shoot the same rifle in LG and HG, and there isn't really time to thoroughly clean between the two classes. At most someone could run a couple patches. When the match is over we have put 65-75 rounds though the barrel, and they shoot as well then as when they have just been cleaned. Add some testing the day before and that can go to 100 rounds.

When we clean, the consensus seems to be that we need to get all the carbon off the lands, but having a little in the grooves is okay. We don't need to take it to bare metal but it's no big deal if we do. Usually, my barrels need one fouler shot after a bare metal cleaning to shoot well, but I usually shoot 4-5 sighters before I shoot for record on the first round anyway.

There are various approaches to cleaning an LR BR rifle, and good shooters seem to do well regardless of how they choose to clean. I think most clean after every match, some are thorough, some do just a little. Many if not most of us have bore scopes so we know what the inside of our barrels look like.

I have my own lathe so chambering a new barrel isn't a big deal. Barrels are a frequently replaced item. If I ever get a hummer barrel I might try to stretch out it's round count a little. With an average barrel it isn't worth it.

So based on what I have done and seen, It's nearly impossible for me to take anyone seriously who implies there is only one way to properly clean a barrel or that I am doing it wrong........

I bet if it was a hummer you would care, and to burn a good barrel up using it on both heavy and light, I see why they don't last very long.... Proper cleaning makes them last longer..... jim

 

[Fuj]

several years ago i soaked few patches in sweets and put a penny in between them. 6 months later i could not see any damage to the penny.

Something went wrong in your test !! Here's that 1956-D
penny I soaked for 12 hours. I chose it because of sharpness
it still had, and real copper, and not the newer plated pennies.
Sharpness is gone and etched surface. If I went 6 months, I
would bet the penny would be gone.

 

[K22]

Test data is always more meaningful than unsupported premises.

I stopped using ammonia based solvents because their harsh odor and toxicity. Bore Tech Cu+2 seems to do an adequate job based on my observations of performance on paper. I can detect no difference in performance results between Cu+2 and ammonia based solvents.

gunblue490's video on solvents and barrel cleaning offers an interesting premise regarding copper fouling. This fellow has an impressive shooting resume and is not some "crack pot".

Perhaps Dad and grandpa knew something we didn't in just using good old Hoppe's No. 9. I don't know but I plan to test gunblue490's premise this summer in one rifle. If gunblue's premise is correct then my rifle cleaning will be greatly simplified and significantly more cost effective.

 

[rijndael]

Perhaps Dad and grandpa knew something we didn't in just using good old Hoppe's No. 9.

Their #9 is different from our #9.

The older version also had ammonia in it.

 

[Fuj]

Their #9 is different from our #9.

The older version also had ammonia in it.

Got to love that Hoppes' odor !! Curiosity killed the wild cat. LOL

I have this ancient glass bottle of Hoppes I found in my Uncles
garage after he passed. Hoppes has been around since 1903
and this bottle has a date of 1937. Has that famous hoppes smell
with a brownish but clear color at this point in time. So why not ??
Changed out pennies to a 1952-D and we'll let it soak for a few days.
Stay tuned......

 

[jelenko]

From my experience, the current Hoppes 9 doesn't do anything to copper and about as much to carbon fouling.

A couple years ago [like 2-3] I cleaned two different barrels with Hoppe 9 until a couple dry patches came out clean.

Pushed a patch with Bore Tech C4 down the bores - lots of black stuff. End of Hoppes 9,

 

[JEFFPPC]

From my experience, the current Hoppes 9 doesn't do anything to copper and about as much to carbon fouling.

A couple years ago [like 2-3] I cleaned two different barrels with Hoppe 9 until a couple dry patches came out clean.

Pushed a patch with Bore Tech C4 down the bores - lots of black stuff. End of Hoppes 9,

I use some Hopper mixed with Kroil. It works but very slow. If you have time to let soak several days at a times it will get the carbon out but not so good on copper. I have pretty much replaced it with Montana Extreme. Hoppes by far has the best aroma. As far as a 1 step process the no longer available Gunslick Foam works as well as anytimg. I guess debating gun cleaning cause as much high blood pressure as a political debate. Good to have something to in the winter,lol.

 

[46and2]

Got to love that Hppes' odor.

 

[David101]

Something went wrong in your test !! Here's that 1956-D
penny I soaked for 12 hours. I chose it because of sharpness
it still had, and real copper, and not the newer plated pennies.
Sharpness is gone and etched surface. If I went 6 months, I
would bet the penny would be gone.

Being a copper penny wouldnt you have been pissed off if it hadnt been eaten by the sweets. The whole purpose of sweets is to remove copper. Its how it reacts to steel and stainless that is the big question.

 

[rijndael]

You need to find one of those 1943 steel pennies.

 

[Fuj]

Being a copper penny wouldnt you have been pissed off if it hadnt been eaten by the sweets. The whole purpose of sweets is to remove copper. Its how it reacts to steel and stainless that is the big question.

Well of course it would have pissed me off If that Sweets did'nt
eat the penny. The test on the barrel stub would have been bogus
if it did'nt. Can't conduct a viable test without knowing the variables !!

Hey fella's !!!! That 1937 vintage of Hoppes is starting to work on
that penny. Not as fast as Sweets though. Note that there is no
hint of ammonia. The color is just a darker brown. No blue or greenish
blue hues.....Another mystery and path to explore !!

 

[BoydAllen]

The old Hoppes contained nitrobenzine. Here is some information from Wikipedia.
Nitrobenzene is highly toxic (Threshold Limit Value 5 mg/m3) and readily absorbed through the skin.

Prolonged exposure may cause serious damage to the central nervous system, impair vision, cause liver or kidney damage, anemia and lung irritation. Inhalation of vapors may induce headache, nausea, fatigue, dizziness, cyanosis, weakness in the arms and legs, and in rare cases may be fatal. The oil is readily absorbed through the skin and may increase heart rate, cause convulsions or rarely death. Ingestion may similarly cause headaches, dizziness, nausea, vomiting and gastrointestinal irritation, loss of sensation/use in limbs and also causes internal bleeding.[10]

Nitrobenzene is considered a likely human carcinogen by the United States Environmental Protection Agency,[14] and is classified by the IARC as a Group 2B carcinogen which is "possibly carcinogenic to humans".[15] It has been shown to cause liver, kidney, and thyroid adenomas and carcinomas in rats.[16]

It is classified as an extremely hazardous substance in the United States as defined in Section 302 of the U.S. Emergency Planning and Community Right-to-Know Act (42 U.S.C. 11002), and is subject to strict reporting requirements by facilities which produce, store, or use it in significant quantities.[17]

 

[ballisticxlr]

I soaked a cutoff section of a 416R stainless barrel in sweets for a month. There was no difference visible or measurable to it. I'm a little curious as to why there's a warning in the first place.

 

[BoydAllen]

I soaked a cutoff section of a 416R stainless barrel in sweets for a month. There was no difference visible or measurable to it. I'm a little curious as to why there's a warning in the first place.

Your test had nothing to do with the conditions when actually cleaning a barrel. When you put Sweets in a barrel, using a patch, or brush for that matter, the Sweets can evaporate as it sits there, changing the concentration of the ammonia, and there is fouling that it reacts with.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Your test had nothing to do with the conditions when actually cleaning a barrel. When you put Sweets in a barrel, using a patch, or brush for that matter, the Sweets can evaporate as it sits there, changing the concentration of the ammonia, and there is fouling that it reacts with.

I say we need a test to where we take a nice shiny barrel, foul it up good, clean it with sweets and let it sit a few days. Thats how we can see the frosted damage everybody reports

 

[BoydAllen]

I say we need a test to where we take a nice shiny barrel, foul it up good, clean it with sweets and let it sit a few days. Thats how we can see the frosted damage everybody reports

Sit wet? For some additional information, over 25 years ago, I got distracted and left sweets in a chromoly over night and it pitted the barrel, ruining it. Since then I have gotten along quite well without it.

I am not sure that changes in the surface metallurgy would be easily detectable, or for that matter a very slight etch.

In the past, it seemed to me that the guys that were always checking for copper fouling using Sweets after their regular cleaning were always the ones with jacket fouling issues.....that I did not have. I do not think that you will take every bit of a petroleum based solvent out of a bore with a few dry patches and IMO that tiny residual amount in the texture of the bore's finish helps prevent copper fouling until there is a little powder fouling in the barrel. IMO getting things clean beyond a certain point may actually be counterproductive.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Sit wet?

Yes

 

[BoydAllen]

Good

 

[JEFFPPC]

I say we need a test to where we take a nice shiny barrel, foul it up good, clean it with sweets and let it sit a few days. Thats how we can see the frosted damage everybody reports

Dusty, I have heard this frosted report several times. I have yet to hear some one say I did it, it gave my barrel a frosted look, it did not shoot anymore. Not on a hunting rifle but a better than 1/4 in gun shot and tested by an actual competitive shooter. To much I read this my 3 cousin by my half brothers neighbor. Ya know. I have been leaving Sweets over night for at least 10 yrs and 20 or so barrels. Never a problem.

 

[rayporter]

yesterday after i started another penny test. it must be the penny, because a 1975 penny sat overnight in a soaked rag and i see no discernable damage after 12 hours.