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Sweets Corrosion Test on Barrel Stub

I am sure @johara1 knows what he is doing and gets excellent results. I also get very good results. The key, like I have mentioned frequently, is to think things through and be consistent and systematic with however we do things.

It's that approach that leads to a good result, and I think that is why different people will get good results with different methods.
 
INTJ said:
The big question is does using Sweet's affect accuracy? I have personally seen where Iosso (which cleans 1000 times faster than Sweets), increases throat erosion. However, it's probably not enough of an increase to affect the accuracy of the barrel over its 1200 round competition life.

I wonder if it's the same with Sweets?
Click to expand...
We are talking about chemical reaction not a mechanical process. Sorta apples and oranges in my way of thinking. Yes Iosso works very well to a point if used sparingly. It is taking away the bad but probably taking away some barrel materisl also. It is part of my regimen but not every time I clean. I use it about every 150 rounds until I feel the barrel is going away and showing roughness then I will step it up maybe to after every other match . If you scrub away I think Isso will be part of the erosion the same as lapping compound changes dimensions very minutely. I do know it seems every time I use Isso the gun seems at its best the next match. A couple strokes is all it takes if the barrel is enjoying a proper cleaning regimen, in my experience.
 
INTJ said:
I am sure @johara1 knows what he is doing and gets excellent results. I also get very good results. The key, like I have mentioned frequently, is to think things through and be consistent and systematic with however we do things.

It's that approach that leads to a good result, and I think that is why different people will get good results with different methods.
Click to expand...
I will give you an example I shot a barrel that set records for 3000 rounds using Warthog 1134. With proper cleaning barrels last longer. At the 3000 round point that barrel still shot under a 1/4 min. is that still competitive? For long range you will need a 100 rounds on one before the speed levels out and you can start serious load development, so what would be left with only 1200 rounds before it opens up to a 1/4 min.?.... I'm sure with F class a 1/4min. gun is great, but not in BR...... jim
 
johara1 said:
I will give you an example I shot a barrel that set records for 3000 rounds using Warthog 1134. With proper cleaning barrels last longer. At the 3000 round point that barrel still shot under a 1/4 min. is that still competitive? For long range you will need a 100 rounds on one before the speed levels out and you can start serious load development, so what would be left with only 1200 rounds before it opens up to a 1/4 min.?.... I'm sure with F class a 1/4min. gun is great, but not in BR...... jim
Click to expand...
Your last sentence says it all. If you can't shoot teen aggs in short range BR, you're toast.

That's the problem with many posts on a forum, the accuracy involved in different disciplines is apples to watermelons....

The same applies to cleaning methods. Much different for different disciplines.

Later
Dave
 
I was told that Sweets had Lye in it.

My p. dog shooting partner and I were huge users of Sweets after we had brushed with JB, after a long hard day on the red hot dog towns. He liked is 6% Coors after a long hot day.

His nose would run and he would wipe his nose. The next morning, he had scabs on his nose and face where he had got sweets on his hands transferred from the cleaning rod.

Shooting 600-1100 rounds of centerfire per day with many soakings of sweets, did produce some surface etching, but our only alternative was Blue Goop...remember that stuff?

We continued using Sweets, but neutralized it with two sopping wet patches of lighter fluid, and a 15 minute Sweets soak was max, less in hot barrels. We had access to a medical devise that looked like a modern day Hawkeye Bore scope.

We felt like leaving Sweets in the barrel for no longer than necessary was OK for a super accurate varmint rifle, but there was a cost to the ID surface finish if you forgot and left it in longer. I have not seen this effect with Montana Extreme copper killer.
 
AckleymanII said:
I was told that Sweets had Lye in it.

My p. dog shooting partner and I were huge users of Sweets after we had brushed with JB, after a long hard day on the red hot dog towns. He liked is 6% Coors after a long hot day.

His nose would run and he would wipe his nose. The next morning, he had scabs on his nose and face where he had got sweets on his hands transferred from the cleaning rod.

Shooting 600-1100 rounds of centerfire per day with many soakings of sweets, did produce some surface etching, but our only alternative was Blue Goop...remember that stuff?

We continued using Sweets, but neutralized it with two sopping wet patches of lighter fluid, and a 15 minute Sweets soak was max, less in hot barrels. We had access to a medical devise that looked like a modern day Hawkeye Bore scope.

We felt like leaving Sweets in the barrel for no longer than necessary was OK for a super accurate varmint rifle, but there was a cost to the ID surface finish if you forgot and left it in longer. I have not seen this effect with Montana Extreme copper killer.
Click to expand...
I'm guuessing after 1100 rd days Sweets was the least of your barrels problems. Sweets in a barrel looking like it was being annealed? Good it didn't catch on fire or explode. Did your buddies face get scarred? You guys play hard. Of course your the guys I want in my fox hole.
 
D Coots said:
Your last sentence says it all. If you can't shoot teen aggs in short range BR, you're toast.

That's the problem with many posts on a forum, the accuracy involved in different disciplines is apples to watermelons....

The same applies to cleaning methods. Much different for different disciplines.

Later
Dave
Click to expand...
Yes that is sure true like SR loading methods are not as fussy as long range loading has to be.... jim
 
AckleymanII said:
I was told that Sweets had Lye in it.

My p. dog shooting partner and I were huge users of Sweets after we had brushed with JB, after a long hard day on the red hot dog towns. He liked is 6% Coors after a long hot day.

His nose would run and he would wipe his nose. The next morning, he had scabs on his nose and face where he had got sweets on his hands transferred from the cleaning rod.

Shooting 600-1100 rounds of centerfire per day with many soakings of sweets, did produce some surface etching, but our only alternative was Blue Goop...remember that stuff?

We continued using Sweets, but neutralized it with two sopping wet patches of lighter fluid, and a 15 minute Sweets soak was max, less in hot barrels. We had access to a medical devise that looked like a modern day Hawkeye Bore scope.

We felt like leaving Sweets in the barrel for no longer than necessary was OK for a super accurate varmint rifle, but there was a cost to the ID surface finish if you forgot and left it in longer. I have not seen this effect with Montana Extreme copper killer.
Click to expand...

Wow this is very informative, I've used Wart hog 1134 that is stronger than either Montana extreme or Sweets and it never attacked a barrel.... But you world class PD shooters it does.... amazing..... jim
 
On cleaning and barrel life: The fellow that won the two gun a the latest short range benchrest match at Visalia, CA shoots moly and carnuba coated bullets, and unlike what you might expect, cleans after every match, with patches and a bronze brush, Butch's I think. He gets extraordinary barrel life, with accuracy. Depending on the individual barrel, 2,500 rounds and more. I always pay close attention to do well marching to a different drummer.
 
Lee Sizing wax is better than Carnuba, does wonders for your Extreme Spread also. We started waxing our bullets for p.dogs, cut copper way down.

Experiment, take a barrel stub with the throat cut in it, now using an arbor press, seat a bullet into the lands, one with Wax and one without...get ready for the shock of your life!
 
Well Fellas, this is my findings for 24 hours......Sweets
is pretty inert on raw, and clean 416 barrel steel. The gold
color, I will say is from being exposed to the open air. The
bottle I used is basically new, and what comes out of it is
pretty clear. The slug is bright as I started. An older batch
does have a yellowish tint......That barrel the slug came from
had more surgery done to it this morning. I cut the tenon off,
plugged it with wax, and the Sweets I used in the test was
used to fill the barrel and let sit until a reamer shows up.
So basically done here and satisfied enough that if I run into
a full copper mine, I have no worry's. Now this barrel I'm
soaking will be about a month. I'll report back on that when time
comes
 

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johara1 said:
I will give you an example I shot a barrel that set records for 3000 rounds using Warthog 1134. With proper cleaning barrels last longer. At the 3000 round point that barrel still shot under a 1/4 min. is that still competitive? For long range you will need a 100 rounds on one before the speed levels out and you can start serious load development, so what would be left with only 1200 rounds before it opens up to a 1/4 min.?.... I'm sure with F class a 1/4min. gun is great, but not in BR...... jim
Click to expand...

1/4 MOA at close range is not great for an LR BR rifle in good conditions. Yes, there are barrels that are competitive past 1200 rounds but almost all will make it to 1200, so that is a reasonable expectation for minimum accuracy life in LR BR in 6BRA and 300 WSM.

We are hard on barrels in NBRSA LR BR and it has nothing to do with how they are cleaned. We get them hot and we keep shooting. Most of us shoot the same rifle in LG and HG, and there isn't really time to thoroughly clean between the two classes. At most someone could run a couple patches. When the match is over we have put 65-75 rounds though the barrel, and they shoot as well then as when they have just been cleaned. Add some testing the day before and that can go to 100 rounds.

When we clean, the consensus seems to be that we need to get all the carbon off the lands, but having a little in the grooves is okay. We don't need to take it to bare metal but it's no big deal if we do. Usually, my barrels need one fouler shot after a bare metal cleaning to shoot well, but I usually shoot 4-5 sighters before I shoot for record on the first round anyway.

There are various approaches to cleaning an LR BR rifle, and good shooters seem to do well regardless of how they choose to clean. I think most clean after every match, some are thorough, some do just a little. Many if not most of us have bore scopes so we know what the inside of our barrels look like.

I have my own lathe so chambering a new barrel isn't a big deal. Barrels are a frequently replaced item. If I ever get a hummer barrel I might try to stretch out it's round count a little. With an average barrel it isn't worth it.

So based on what I have done and seen, It's nearly impossible for me to take anyone seriously who implies there is only one way to properly clean a barrel or that I am doing it wrong........
 
Last edited:
Fuj said:
Well Fellas, this is my findings for 24 hours......Sweets
is pretty inert on raw, and clean 416 barrel steel. The gold
color, I will say is from being exposed to the open air. The
bottle I used is basically new, and what comes out of it is
pretty clear. The slug is bright as I started. An older batch
does have a yellowish tint......That barrel the slug came from
had more surgery done to it this morning. I cut the tenon off,
plugged it with wax, and the Sweets I used in the test was
used to fill the barrel and let sit until a reamer shows up.
So basically done here and satisfied enough that if I run into
a full copper mine, I have no worry's. Now this barrel I'm
soaking will be about a month. I'll report back on that when time
comes
Click to expand...
Thank you for doing the test!

I guess I don't have to wonder any more if 15 minutes at a time over many times is the same as leaving Sweets in the barrel for more than 15 minutes :)
 
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