Damn the store I frequently go to Just ran of popcorn I'm totally lost in all this mess.
Chasing the lands is stupid... What do you think?
- Thread starter Erik Cortina
- Start date
Jay Christopherson
Not An Admin
Things were getting slow around here anyhow.
And @Kevin57, no worries. Just because I've had some measure of success doesn't mean I know any more than anyone else. I think what I think with regards to chasing the lands and it's mostly based on what I have directly experienced in a limited range of calibers. I have some suspicions, but no way to prove them without a lot of work that I don't care to do.
And @Kevin57, no worries. Just because I've had some measure of success doesn't mean I know any more than anyone else. I think what I think with regards to chasing the lands and it's mostly based on what I have directly experienced in a limited range of calibers. I have some suspicions, but no way to prove them without a lot of work that I don't care to do.
Kevin57
Gold $$ Contributor
I’ll take extra butter on mine. Maybe a side of Butches Bore Shine.
All of my experience is with the 6ppc and 6BR variants. I do believe different calibers have different needs and specific techniques. I do initially determine the OAL to the lands. My starting COAL is based on that. After that it’s all what the target says. Jam minus 20 would work as well.
K
All of my experience is with the 6ppc and 6BR variants. I do believe different calibers have different needs and specific techniques. I do initially determine the OAL to the lands. My starting COAL is based on that. After that it’s all what the target says. Jam minus 20 would work as well.
K
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I have a scenario that I will run by everyone. These are just numbers, not intended to be precise for this, but I hope it helps ANYONE understand this better.
Lets say that I take two shooters and give one of them a full jam measurement and the other the just touch measurement. Lets say jam is 2.520 and touch is 2.500..bear with me here.
Lets also say that they change seating depth in .005 increments testing.
Now, here's the kicker, the ideal seating depth is 2.510 or .010 from touch and .010 from jam. The guy with the jam moves out and the guy with the touch length moves into the lands with each .005 adjustment.
Neither shooter knows the other shooters numbers..only jam and touch, respectively.
Which one finds tune first and how many .005 adjustments are needed?
GO!
Yes, this is easy but that's why I used it. It doesn't really matter
Lets say that I take two shooters and give one of them a full jam measurement and the other the just touch measurement. Lets say jam is 2.520 and touch is 2.500..bear with me here.
Lets also say that they change seating depth in .005 increments testing.
Now, here's the kicker, the ideal seating depth is 2.510 or .010 from touch and .010 from jam. The guy with the jam moves out and the guy with the touch length moves into the lands with each .005 adjustment.
Neither shooter knows the other shooters numbers..only jam and touch, respectively.
Which one finds tune first and how many .005 adjustments are needed?
GO!
Yes, this is easy but that's why I used it. It doesn't really matter
J F Johannes
AKA "RatRifle"
Mike, where are you going to find two shooters to do this experiment, not here on AS?
Jim
Jim
4-H Club?
Oh, that would solve all of this. We wouldn't even be having this discussion.The one using your tuner.
k
Most of these discussions are silly......and useful. The bottom line is most anything works if the technique or approach is developed in a systematic way, consistently applied, and constantly tweaked.
For me, that means 105 Hammers like to be jumped about .015", based on how I measure the lands. Two barrels with different twist rates and even different reamers (throat length change) have shown me that. That is out of sync with what most people find, but so what. A well tuned load .015" jumped isn't going to go out of tune in a multi-day match.
And if I am well tuned along with with the rest of the guys, the how well we shoot will be based on how well we pick a condition (LR BR).
For me, that means 105 Hammers like to be jumped about .015", based on how I measure the lands. Two barrels with different twist rates and even different reamers (throat length change) have shown me that. That is out of sync with what most people find, but so what. A well tuned load .015" jumped isn't going to go out of tune in a multi-day match.
And if I am well tuned along with with the rest of the guys, the how well we shoot will be based on how well we pick a condition (LR BR).
Oh, that would solve all of this. We wouldn't even be having this discussion.
This is the answer you’re looking for. The jammed guy feels his jam. He doesn’t bother going longer because he knows accuracy suffers.
The short loader doesn’t know where the lands are. He will likely go both ways looking for accuracy and use more bullets doing so.
BINGO!
tom
Gold $$ Contributor
If you can repeat the jam number to the fraction of a thousandths like I can finding "touch", then I say why not....it's the same thing. The reason that I take the extra 18.7 seconds to find "touch" after every cleaning, is so that I have an idea as to when a "checkup" is called for(this of course, once the load is developed). The results of that test may very well indicate leaving seating at "2.871" is best, or it may not. It might indicate the precision will be best with a 1:1 ratio move, or it may not. I do what I do so as to attempt to not be "surprised" by a poor group that I would've otherwise had control over had I just took the time to run a test. I guess I just can't afford to wait until it underperformed in a match to get my attention.....Likely a mental flaw. Trying to eliminate big groups when conditions aren't the limiting factor is how you agg. It's work, and i do the work....and still find things I could've done better or more thorough.
I think we all "chase the seating node" no matter what skinning knife is used.
Tom
I think we all "chase the seating node" no matter what skinning knife is used.
Tom
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Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
This is awesome! I haven't had so much fun reading a thread in a while.
Erik's video makes sense to me. I'm going to try this method for load development.
Irrespective of seating depths,bullets are going to "jam" at some point in their trip towards the target.
My biggest complaint is that "click baiting" is such a cheap way to approach an idea or postulation. Wouldn't presenting the notion with facts,as it relates to your,hopefully well defined criteria make the community stronger?
My biggest complaint is that "click baiting" is such a cheap way to approach an idea or postulation. Wouldn't presenting the notion with facts,as it relates to your,hopefully well defined criteria make the community stronger?
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