280 ackley improved brass splitting

[Count_points- later]

Ok that is a solid plan. It may take more than one or 2 firings to fill your brass out so fire them once, WITHOUT bumping your shoulder, then if they fit back in the chamber shoot them again without bumping. Do not bump until you cant close the bolt on a fired case, then thats when you need the comparator. Do not set your die to just touch the shellholder and load. You will bump them way too far and get split cases

Ok that is a solid plan. It may take more than one or 2 firings to fill your brass out so fire them once, WITHOUT bumping your shoulder, then if they fit back in the chamber shoot them again without bumping. Do not bump until you cant close the bolt on a fired case, then thats when you need the comparator. Do not set your die to just touch the shellholder and load. You will bump them way too far and get split cases

Are you saying to do not size the shell all the way and fire it a few times if it fits in chamber

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Are you saying to do not size the shell all the way and fire it a few times if it fits in chamber

Exactly. Why bump it if it fits? If its .010 short then you bump it another .002 youre going to blow a shoulder eventually

 

[Bc'z]

Are you saying to do not size the shell all the way and fire it a few times if it fits in chamber

You can size just the neck if you run die in to touch shell holder, then back it out 1/2-3/4 turn and set lock ring.

 

[shortgrass]

RCBS current manufacture dies are made to min SAAMI specs. It might be a chore to come up with a set of dies for the "old" Ackley. Maybe they could be special ordered or, for sure, a custom sizer could be made.

 

[lawman29]

I've used the Nosler 280AI brass. The brass is not the problem.
For a new piece of brass that was loaded did it split on the first firing?
If the answer is yes then see below:
Did you size the new brass before loading it the first time?
If answer is no than the problem is your chamber.
If answer is yes than the issue is your sizing (but first you have to confirm that it is not the chamber by loading up a round on unfired and un-sized brass and firing).

 

[Dusty Stevens]

RCBS current manufacture dies are made to min SAAMI specs. It might be a chore to come up with a set of dies for the "old" Ackley. Maybe they could be special ordered or, for sure, a custom sizer could be made.

Redding will still make them if you call. Not even a surcharge. I went thru this debacle and hard time when nosler did this and started selling ai brass. I thought it was the best thing ever until i gathered up the 11lbs of rounds i could carry for that trip

 

[SPQR70AD]

Did you ever try to just fire standard 280 in your AI and have it fire formed then see if they split?

 

[Shawnba67]

There are at least two .280 Ackley designs. The SAAMI version is not the same as the older PO Ackley design.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ush-fit-on-the-acklies.3976695/#post-37473959

https://faq.nosler.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=32&id=39&artlang=en

 

[mauser284]

Best option is to either build a 280 Remington or a 7mm Rem Mag and not waste time on AI in this day and age. That said splitting can happen with any cartridge. I always do a chamber cast once I rule out my brass since I reload. I seldom buy factory ammo. That said on non-AI cartridges factory ammo can be a great litmus test that can be performed faster than anything else often.

 

[Count_points- later]

I've used the Nosler 280AI brass. The brass is not the problem.
For a new piece of brass that was loaded did it split on the first firing?
If the answer is yes then see below:
Did you size the new brass before loading it the first time?
If answer is no than the problem is your chamber.
If answer is yes than the issue is your sizing (but first you have to confirm that it is not the chamber by loading up a round on unfired and un-sized brass and firing).

No I did not size the brass before I shot it. Every single case in that box of brass split at the shoulder. I currently just purchased a box of factory loaded nosler trophy grade. I put 5 shots through the gun it was perfect. No crack! I was able to locate in my pile of stuff a box of fire formed 280 rem brass that I did a while back loaded 8 rounds 4 rounds full sized 4 neck sized. I shot 4 of the neck sized shells and 2 of the full length sized and no issue no crack !!! At this point I’m lost I’m going to Load the box of factory nosler brass and see how many I can get! I contacted nosler and they asked me if I still had the brass and when I said no they said for the whole box to fail very well be someone told me wrong. That they have had lot number iusses. So that’s where I’m currently at.

 

[Count_points- later]

Did you ever try to just fire standard 280 in your AI and have it fire formed then see if they split?

I had some of them split but like I said before I’m new at this stuff and I never really dug into it once I started having issues I put away due to time and then I had a child and just now getting some time to mess with it so kinda starting over

 

[Tommie]

Best option is to either build a 280 Remington or a 7mm Rem Mag and not waste time on AI in this day and age. That said splitting can happen with any cartridge. I always do a chamber cast once I rule out my brass since I reload. I seldom buy factory ammo. That said on non-AI cartridges factory ammo can be a great litmus test that can be performed faster than anything else often.

Well actually, Ackley style chamberings do possess some advantages (along with some disadvantages). Not attempting to start a pissing match, just pointing out that it isn’t necessarily a waste of time.

 

[SPQR70AD]

No I did not size the brass before I shot it. Every single case in that box of brass split at the shoulder. I currently just purchased a box of factory loaded nosler trophy grade. I put 5 shots through the gun it was perfect. No crack! I was able to locate in my pile of stuff a box of fire formed 280 rem brass that I did a while back loaded 8 rounds 4 rounds full sized 4 neck sized. I shot 4 of the neck sized shells and 2 of the full length sized and no issue no crack !!! At this point I’m lost I’m going to Load the box of factory nosler brass and see how many I can get! I contacted nosler and they asked me if I still had the brass and when I said no they said for the whole box to fail very well be someone told me wrong. That they have had lot number iusses. So that’s where I’m currently at.

seems like it would be cheaper to fire form standard 280 brass. then after firing a bunch of 280 rounds you may not even want to bother with the AI version

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Did you ever anneal them before fire forming?

 

[lawman29]

No I did not size the brass before I shot it. Every single case in that box of brass split at the shoulder.

Then it is either a chamber issue or a bad lot of brass. It has nothing to do with your sizing - case prep.

 

[lawman29]

From Redding:

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)
280 Ackley Improved vs. 280 Rem. Improved 40 Degree
The SAAMI spec cartridge carries the approved name of " 280 Ackley Improved " .
The older wildcat has several names including 280 Ackley Improved 40°, 280 Rem Improved 40°, 280 Imp 40°, 280 Ackley, 280 Rem Imp, and more.
The SAAMI spec 280 Ackley Improved chamber is .014 inches shorter at the datum line headspace dimension than the traditionally accepted wildcat chamber spec as previously produced.
Our current production dies are for chambers that are cut to the SAAMI specification and are stamped "280 Ackley Imp".
Any Redding dies made before 2011 are stamped " 280 Rem Imp 40° " and are built to the originally accepted wildcat specs.
These older dies will not bump the shoulder of cases for a SAAMI chamber. In other words, the old dies are too deep for the current SAAMI chamber.
Redding makes a Competition shellholder that is .014 deeper than the standard #1 shellholder so the owner of a wildcat chamber can use the current SAAMI spec dies for safe resizing.

Failing to use this shellholder or to back the die away from a standard shellholder by a minimum of 0.014" will result in too much shoulder bump which may create an unsafe, excessive headspace condition when fired in a traditionally dimensioned wildcat chamber.

 

[lawman29]

1a) New Nosler virgin brass that was not sized was loaded and shot and split first firing. Either a chamber issue or bad brass.

1b) Nosler branded loaded ammunition was shot and did not split.

Based on #1 and #2 that indicates a lot of bad brass for #1. You can further test by reloading the brass from the box of ammo to see if it holds up. If it splits second time around, then we're back to chamber. Nosler 280 ackley brass does not need to be annealed - it's not going to split.

2) Now let's consider the 280 brass that was fire formed. Did not split till ~ 3rd firing (your post#1). This is where comments on annealing come into play. I tried to fireform .218 brass to .218 mashburn bee without annealing, didn't work (no short cut there). Annealed brass and I had success but still lost a few cases - same for 22 khornet. You got a couple firings and then it failed. Anneal prior to fire forming (note after annealing re-size brass using a regular 280 die, shoot and now you're good to go in the ackley).

These are two separate issues, keep them separate to understand...

 

[Count_points- later]

1a) New Nosler virgin brass that was not sized was loaded and shot and split first firing. Either a chamber issue or bad brass.

1b) Nosler branded loaded ammunition was shot and did not split.

Based on #1 and #2 that indicates a lot of bad brass for #1. You can further test by reloading the brass from the box of ammo to see if it holds up. If it splits second time around, then we're back to chamber. Nosler 280 ackley brass does not need to be annealed - it's not going to split.

2) Now let's consider the 280 brass that was fire formed. Did not split till ~ 3rd firing (your post#1). This is where comments on annealing come into play. I tried to fireform .218 brass to .218 mashburn bee without annealing, didn't work (no short cut there). Annealed brass and I had success but still lost a few cases - same for 22 khornet. You got a couple firings and then it failed. Anneal prior to fire forming (note after annealing re-size brass using a regular 280 die, shoot and now you're good to go in the ackley).

These are two separate issues, keep them separate to understand...

thank you for your comments clear and clean for me to understand!!

 

[nmkid]

My current, last build is a 280AI. I started using Norma brass for fireforming and did not lose a single case. Last week I tried some Nosler brass and it worked fine. However, it was already 280AI. One thing I did find is that the necks of the Nosler brass are thinner than Norma brass. For the Norma brass I use a .212 bushing for sizing. For the Nosler brass I had to use a .209 bushing to get the same grip as the .212.

 

[Count_points- later]

Thanks everyone for your input and help. I currently am on my 3rd test load with both a fire formed brass and a nosler ai brass and no case failure yet ! Thank you to all who talked about sizing issues I completely reset my die and so far everything seems to be good !! Very excited to put the gun back on bench within a few weeks ! Soon to be back to shooting 1000 yards !!!