Concentricity gauges and neck tension

[Grimstod]

Years ago I did testing on targets at the home range and found some interesting results that supported what I and others thought about neck tension and concentricity. This year I have been shooting groundhog competitions. Some with this gauge and some without. I think now that season is almost over I can say with confidence that my scores are about 5 points better when I check and correct concentricity. Its the only gauge I know of that will not reck neck tension. Something I think is very important.

 

[Cuando]

That's pretty cool and a good video.

A couple things..

1. You have a very nice watch but it's on the wrong wrist. Just so you know.

2. What is the price?

3. What improvements have you seen on paper?

Thanks

 

[Straightshooter1]

2. What is the price?

https://www.premieraccuracy.com/gauge-item.html

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Get rid of concentricity before it ever happens. Chamber first then the sizing die. Get those 2 right and itll fall right into place with no concentricity gage needed

 

[Grimstod]

That's pretty cool and a good video.

A couple things..

1. You have a very nice watch but it's on the wrong wrist. Just so you know.

2. What is the price?

3. What improvements have you seen on paper?

Thanks

So I did a lot more matches this year. Sometimes with and sometimes without using this gage. I saw a 3-5 out of 150 points improvement using it vs not using it.

 

[Grimstod]

Get rid of concentricity before it ever happens. Chamber first then the sizing die. Get those 2 right and itll fall right into place with no concentricity gage needed

And if something in your system like say dirt in a die happens you will never know it.

 

[Gina1]

That's pretty cool and a good video.

A couple things..

1. You have a very nice watch but it's on the wrong wrist. Just so you know.

2. What is the price?

3. What improvements have you seen on paper?

Thanks

(1) not wrong wrist if your left handed.

 

[mikecr]

I like it.
It sets the indicator back to the middle of the case, giving max reading of deviation.
I agree with a gentle tap over pushing force. Price is a bit stiff..

Unaddressed; the correcting tool addresses only one factor contributing to crooked ammo. Eccentricity(misnomer'd as concentricity) is not total indicated runout, and cases are not chambering straight until your TIR is low.
So after addressing eccentricity here, you should followup with runout measure (off exposed bullet bearing) with an equivalent V-Block setup. Just a suggestion.

 

[RegionRat]

Back when the NECO gage was new, commercial brass and surplus brass were not as good as they are now.

We had wall thickness issues that caused runout and the work done to demonstrate that clocking and sorting was a way to improve groups size was easy to demonstrate. (I still have batches of brass with notches filed in the rims for runout clocking laying around, but they are older than about half the readers here...)

As the years and decades have rolled forward, brass options have improved, and better dies and methods have come along. The gages gave us a way to prefect our brass and loading process to the point where most of us only occasionally spot check to make sure things are still stable.

While there is nothing wrong with being careful to keep runout under control, I have yet to see a good piece of work that demonstrates the bending or tapping corrections versus un-corrected group size.

I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate for a moment, but what would say that this tap method is any different than the Hornady tool’s bend method?

The test wouldn’t be too difficult to demonstrate, other than the difficulty of having enough samples of crooked rounds to play with either method of correction adjustment.

 

[Grimstod]

Back when the NECO gage was new, commercial brass and surplus brass were not as good as they are now.

We had wall thickness issues that caused runout and the work done to demonstrate that clocking and sorting was a way to improve groups size was easy to demonstrate. (I still have batches of brass with notches filed in the rims for runout clocking laying around, but they are older than about half the readers here...)

As the years and decades have rolled forward, brass options have improved, and better dies and methods have come along. The gages gave us a way to prefect our brass and loading process to the point where most of us only occasionally spot check to make sure things are still stable.

While there is nothing wrong with being careful to keep runout under control, I have yet to see a good piece of work that demonstrates the bending or tapping corrections versus un-corrected group size.

I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate for a moment, but what would say that this tap method is any different than the Hornady tool’s bend method?

The test wouldn’t be too difficult to demonstrate, other than the difficulty of having enough samples of crooked rounds to play with either method of correction adjustment.

See my post about about match results.

 

[garandman]

My L. E. Wilson chamber dies are always under 0.001 on the concentricity gauge. Usually 0.0005-6.

No lie.

Best way to check/fix concentricity is to get it right from the start .

 

[mikecr]

on the concentricity gauge

That being what specific 'concentricity' gauge?

 

[garandman]

That being what specific 'concentricity' gauge?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101273334?pid=220200

Please tell me we are not going down the rabbit hole of someone claiming my gauge- which they have not been within 100 miles of - is no good.

Thats what happenned on that "other" precision rifle forum.

 

[MattPeetz]

If you knew which batches were fixed and ones that were not. Your “test” is invalid. You had influence to your brain.
This is why all these hocus pocus do dads get bought. People forget the key component. Your brain. Whether you like it or not, it was already a conceived conclusion before you ever pulled the trigger.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Thats what happenned on that "other" precision rifle forum.

No such thing

 

[dmoran]

If you knew which batches were fixed and ones that were not. Your “test” is invalid. You had influence to your brain.
This is why all these hocus pocus do dads get bought. People forget the key component. Your brain. Whether you like it or not, it was already a conceived conclusion before you ever pulled the trigger.

That is another scenario to why "round robin style ladder testing" works so well and is such a fair unbiased testing method. All shots aimed and shot at one and the same aim point, and shot as one group, with the plots to each increment being tested with in the group, being the assessments.

Example: a neck tension test (at 1000yds)



Edit.... Sorry for hijacking the thread somewhat (attention: @Grimstod)

 

[Grimstod]

I

That is another scenario to why "round robin style ladder testing" works so well and is such a fair unbiased testing method. All shots aimed and shot at one and the same aim point, and shot as one group, with the plots to each increment being tested with in the group, being the assessments.

Example: a neck tension test (at 1000yds)

View attachment 1129952

Edit.... Sorry for hijacking the thread somewhat (attention: @Grimstod)

Seams relevant

 

[Bart B.]

Does the case body at the dial indicator touch point ever touch the chamber wall on a chambered round when the firing pin hits the cartridge before it fires?

 

[garandman]

Does the case body at the dial indicator touch point ever touch the chamber wall on a chambered round when the firing pin hits the cartridge before it fires?

I would imagine it does, at some times and perhaps not others. Hammer fired vs. striker fired may even make a diference. Auto loader vs. bolt action repeater also.

 

[Bart B.]

I would imagine it does, at some times and perhaps not others. Hammer fired vs. striker fired may even make a diference. Auto loader vs. bolt action repeater also.

Even with a strong in line ejector spring pushing the case shoulder into the chamber shoulder before firing?

What about a 2.5 ounce firing pin moving 20 fps pushed by a 25 pound spring force?