expander button

[cw308]

Web
Total amount of expansion is .004 when the case goes up into the die but when the case is lowered and the ball goes through the neck it expands the case back out .002 , as a example with 308 and the expander ball OD is .306 your left with . 002 neck tension . My setup with the standard F/L die and expander ball , nothing fancy is .003 . Has been working well for me .

 

[antelopedundee]

The best thing to do with an expander button is to put it back in the box in case you decide to resell the die sometime later.

Nothing good comes from pulling an expander button through a case neck. if met with any resistance, it will likely affect the delicate geometry of the case neck/shoulder in relation to the desired (die) dimensions that it was intended to size. By delicate I mean .001. Spread you caliper jaws .001. I'm 64 years old and my eyes can't see .001 even when I hold the calipers against a light. Maybe you can

The neck of you brass is like the barrel of you gun only much softer, critically important to proper bullet alignment and bullet release. Once sized the only thing that should touch it is the powder funnel, the powder and of course the bullet.

Joe

This. Just leave the button out. There's less friction with the expander ball if you lube the case necks with something like Imperial wax. Unless you are using a fragile seat die like the Redding competition die, why not just let the bullet [esp a boattail] be your expander? For the most part the extra neck tension doesn't matter all that much IMO.

 

[Steve Ladino]

This. Just leave the button out. There's less friction with the expander ball if you lube the case necks with something like Imperial wax. Unless you are using a fragile seat die like the Redding competition die, why not just let the bullet [esp a boattail] be your expander? For the most part the extra neck tension doesn't matter all that much IMO.

This technique will likely result in damage to the bullets from the seater plug due to the force required to seat the bullet.

 

[antelopedundee]

This technique will likely result in damage to the bullets from the seater plug due to the force required to seat the bullet.

Not really, can't even tell the difference.

 

[cw308]

I'm with Steve L using the bullet as the expander can also damage the bullet . Antelope , that thin air up in those hills makes you do funny things , just be careful .

 

[dolek]

Bullet as an expander makes Zero sense .

 

[antelopedundee]

I'm with Steve L using the bullet as the expander can also damage the bullet . Antelope , that thin air up in those hills makes you do funny things , just be careful .

Here is a pic of a .25-06 case sized with no expander with a 6.5 mm flat base bullet seated. If you can find damage on that bullet I must be legally blind.

 

[antelopedundee]

Bullet as an expander makes Zero sense . Since Redding advises against using more than a tad of pressure when using their competition seating die, I'll just use one of my Sinclair expander mandrels for the job.

You're going to expand [work] the neck either way so does it really matter if you use a bullet, a mandrel or one of the various shaped buttons for the job?

 

[dolek]

You're going to expand [work] the neck either way so does it really matter if you use a bullet, a mandrel or one of the various shaped buttons for the job?

Steel,simple as that.

 

[dolek]

Here is a pic of a .25-06 case sized with no expander with a 6.5 mm flat base bullet seated. If you can find damage on that bullet I must be legally blind.

Can you see inside ? Can't teach those not willing to learn,sadly.

 

[antelopedundee]

Steel,simple as that.

Carbide for me.

 

[antelopedundee]

Can you see inside ?

I pulled it afterwards and nothing out of the ordinary. I did it just to show that it could be done. Maybe one day I'll load some and shoot them.

 

[47WillysGuy]

I pulled it afterwards and nothing out of the ordinary. I did it just to show that it could be done. Maybe one day I'll load some and shoot them.

Please post a picture of the pulled bullet. I have had case necks push copper off the bullet that showed and have pulled bullets that were damaged but didn’t show.

 

[Murray Brook]

One of the effects I've found that when you use the bullet to expand the neck more than .003 is the run-out becomes hard to keep under control.JME

 

[antelopedundee]

Please post a picture of the pulled bullet. I have had case necks push copper off the bullet that showed and have pulled bullets that were damaged but didn’t show.

I'll seat a couple more. Deburring case the mouth/s will will prevent any scraping. For hunting bullets. it's no big deal IMO.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Sounds like you got it figured out

 

[cw308]

Once the case neck is sized back down , lets say .004 without the ball , now using the ball it opens the I Don't of the neck .002 . The neck tension is different , less stress on seating and less neck tension . Using bushing dies is a different ball game , you can adjust neck tension . I'm talking standard full size and neck sizing dies . The guys that are into neck turning and adding heat are trying everything possible to tighten up there groups and in some cases just adding another variable . I try to keep things simple use the tool as it is designed to work . Maybe brass shouldn't be used 25 times , barrels loose there accuracy after a certain amount of rounds , sure they'll shoot but how accurate . I use to use the same cases for one season , this year I'm using 3 different brands in rotation to see any difference in accuracy with less firings . Full sizing every time with the expander ball minimum case headspace . So far so good .

 

[antelopedundee]

Please post a picture of the pulled bullet. I have had case necks push copper off the bullet that showed and have pulled bullets that were damaged but didn’t show.

Here it is. First off electricity went out I apologize for any poor pics. I don't really have any .25-06 cases readily available that are new and not messed with. So I took the first pictured case and FL sized it in a .25-06 die with no expander.


The second pic is the bullet 6.5mm Hornady interlock seated with an identical bullet for comparison.

The third pic is the bullet pulled. As you can see no damage done.

For chits n giggles I loaded 5 similar cases with 51.5 grains IMR4831 Rem 9 1/2 primer and a Sierra 130 grain GameChanger bullet so maybe Monday morning I'll see how they do. So if you turn your necks chances are that you would have pretty good results sizing without an expander and just seating on top of that. There is an administrator over at accuratereloading.com doing a test of neck tension vs accuracy.

second pic

third picture

 

[47WillysGuy]

Here it is. First off electricity went out I apologize for any poor pics. I don't really have any .25-06 cases readily available that are new and not messed with. So I took the first pictured case and FL sized it in a .25-06 die with no expander.


The second pic is the bullet 6.5mm Hornady interlock seated with an identical bullet for comparison.

The third pic is the bullet pulled. As you can see no damage done.

For chits n giggles I loaded 5 similar cases with 51.5 grains IMR4831 Rem 9 1/2 primer and a Sierra 130 grain GameChanger bullet so maybe Monday morning I'll see how they do. So if you turn your necks chances are that you would have pretty good results sizing without an expander and just seating on top of that. There is an administrator over at accuratereloading.com doing a test of neck tension vs accuracy.

second pic

third picture

Seeing is believing. Going to try a different tacked on my loads. Thank you!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Here it is. First off electricity went out I apologize for any poor pics. I don't really have any .25-06 cases readily available that are new and not messed with. So I took the first pictured case and FL sized it in a .25-06 die with no expander.


The second pic is the bullet 6.5mm Hornady interlock seated with an identical bullet for comparison.

The third pic is the bullet pulled. As you can see no damage done.

For chits n giggles I loaded 5 similar cases with 51.5 grains IMR4831 Rem 9 1/2 primer and a Sierra 130 grain GameChanger bullet so maybe Monday morning I'll see how they do. So if you turn your necks chances are that you would have pretty good results sizing without an expander and just seating on top of that. There is an administrator over at accuratereloading.com doing a test of neck tension vs accuracy.

second pic

third picture

Dropping a bullet on a concrete floor ruins it. The question is if you have the skill and equipment to find it. Most rifles you can beat the bullet with a hammer and it doesnt make a difference so most experiments will be inconclusive anyway