How often do you clean?

[Dave Way]

I have a question for the Benchrest shooters. This question has nagged at me for quite some time and it's time to ask. QUESTION: It has been my experience that after a R-E-A-L-L-Y good barrel scrubbing, depending on the "age" of the barrel, it takes at least 4-5 shots on a new barrel and up to 10-12 rounds on an "older" barrel, to get the barrel to "settle down" and start shooting well. How do y'all clean so often and get the barrel to settle in after maybe a shot or two in order to shoot a competitive group? This blows my mind.. Thanks..

So this morning I went to the range with a clean barrel. 6 shots to get zeroed in and I then shot a 2” 5 shot group at 1K followed by a 3” 5 shot group testing two different neck tensions. I’ll never know, or care, what it took to “settle down”. Maybe it was 2, maybe 6, all I cared about was being zeroed in.

I suppose the answer to your question may well be that it all depends on the accuracy level you are seeking and the discipline you shoot. In bench rest we can fire unlimited sighters prior to the score target being raised. That is not the case in other disciplines. Sometimes cleaning is not an option because of time constraints.

What I question is how people justify not cleaning if they have the option to? Would you shoot with dirty lenses on your scope? Would you chamber rounds after you dropped them in the mud? Sometimes I just wonder if some people use the old “ you can do more damage to a barrel by cleaning it than by shooting it” because they really don’t like cleaning.

Dave.

 

[Ccrider]

Deer hunting rifles twice a season. Once at the start, once after it’s over.

Short range benchrest is a totally different story and seems to be barrel specific in frequency of cleaning and the amount of cleaning. Don’t buy a borescope if you are OCD.

 

[ShootDots]

So this morning I went to the range with a clean barrel. 6 shots to get zeroed in and I then shot a 2” 5 shot group at 1K followed by a 3” 5 shot group testing two different neck tensions. I’ll never know, or care, what it took to “settle down”. Maybe it was 2, maybe 6, all I cared about was being zeroed in.

I suppose the answer to your question may well be that it all depends on the accuracy level you are seeking and the discipline you shoot. In bench rest we can fire unlimited sighters prior to the score target being raised. That is not the case in other disciplines. Sometimes cleaning is not an option because of time constraints.

What I question is how people justify not cleaning if they have the option to? Would you shoot with dirty lenses on your scope? Would you chamber rounds after you dropped them in the mud? Sometimes I just wonder if some people use the old “ you can do more damage to a barrel by cleaning it than by shooting it” because they really don’t like cleaning.

Dave.

Thanks.. In F-Class, especially in long-range, unlimited sighters are the norm. I suppose we could clean, at least to some degree, IF we had the time, which normally there is not enough time to clean.. Then there is the issue of having to shoot 20 shots for record. That plus MORE sighters than "normal", if we cleaned, could really make a barrel overly hot.. I guess in Benchrest, you shoot Sighters + 5 or maybe 10 shots for groups. I would guess that the barrels will not get really hot. Thanks again..

 

[Al Lu]

With all the cleaning that I have read, am I guessing that you all have/need a bore scope to see?

 

[Ccrider]

With all the cleaning that I have read, am I guessing that you all have/need a bore scope to see?

Not necessarily. You can feel the difference in a custom barrel between fouled and clean when pushing a brush or jag through.

 

[Rsadams]

If I shoot it I clean it , pistol , rifle or shotgun.... Been doing it like that my entire life and my grandfather was the same... No problems with his guns or mine... Some of his are about 70 years old and most are around 50-60 now and the all shoot fine... It's personal preference....

 

[theallcineyes]

I recently had this discussion with a Highly respected gun builder and shooter. He told me to spend all my time shooting and don't worry about cleaning until I notice my accuracy going to hell. When my accuracy goes south, then clean my barrel. This is for good custom barrels not factory barrels as they are a whole different animal and often require something different.

 

[pirate ammo]

I recently had this discussion with a Highly respected gun builder and shooter. He told me to spend all my time shooting and don't worry about cleaning until I notice my accuracy going to hell. When my accuracy goes south, then clean my barrel. This is for good custom barrels not factory barrels as they are a whole different animal and often require something different.

Hope you had your coffee,clean mine when I'm done for the night. Mr. seeing things,,just having fun..

 

[mmcu]

I try to keep things simple and clean after every shooting session (regardless of round count) with a combination of Shooter's Choice / Butch's Bore Shine and Kroil with a bronze brush.

3 - 10 fouling shots (given the barrel) and I'm ready to shoot groups.

 

[theallcineyes]

Hope you had your coffee,clean mine when I'm done for the night. Mr. seeing things,,just having fun..

LOL , Yep. coffee and some donut. Thanks for asking.

 

[Clam]

For me, I clean my good rifles, handguns and shotguns after every time I shoot them.Although, I do have a couple of cheaper .22rf’s that I shoot critters with at the cabin I don’t clean as much.

On a high volume day, I clean after 100 rds or so, -depends on the rifle. And when finished for the day.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

I recently had this discussion with a Highly respected gun builder and shooter. He told me to spend all my time shooting and don't worry about cleaning until I notice my accuracy going to hell. When my accuracy goes south, then clean my barrel. This is for good custom barrels not factory barrels as they are a whole different animal and often require something different.

That doesn’t make sense, the part about waiting until accuracy goes south. I’m talking about competition and by then all is lost unless that’s your competition’s philosophy.

 

[JMS597]

I shoot benchrest at a club range, and the guys who seem to win almost every match clean between targets. I usually clean when I get home after the match.

Maybe they're on to something, since I've never won a match. I'm still learning having just started in benchrest last year. I do know two guys with Hawkeye bore scopes, and have checked my main rifle with one. My cleaning process seems to be working, so I guess I'll stick with it.

 

[BartsBullets]

I have a question for the Benchrest shooters. This question has nagged at me for quite some time and it's time to ask. QUESTION: It has been my experience that after a R-E-A-L-L-Y good barrel scrubbing, depending on the "age" of the barrel, it takes at least 4-5 shots on a new barrel and up to 10-12 rounds on an "older" barrel, to get the barrel to "settle down" and start shooting well. How do y'all clean so often and get the barrel to settle in after maybe a shot or two in order to shoot a competitive group? This blows my mind.. Thanks..

@ShootDots After my normal cleaning it usually only takes 1 shot for the barrel to settle down. After a deep cleaning with a good Barrel I don’t trust it until after 2 shots and I’ll trust the 3rd sighter.

As for an older barrel That would take 10 to 12 shots to settle down. I’ve never had one that took that many and it would be in the scrap pile way before then.


Bart

 

[ShootDots]

@ShootDots After my normal cleaning it usually only takes 1 shot for the barrel to settle down. After a deep cleaning with a good Barrel I don’t trust it until after 2 shots and I’ll trust the 3rd sighter.

As for an older barrel That would take 10 to 12 shots to settle down. I’ve never had one that took that many and it would be in the scrap pile way before then.


Bart

Hello Bart. The "older barrel" may be in the scrap heap for Benchrest, however, I have seen the older barrel shoot well enough to win in F-Class matches on more than a few occasions. I had a 6 Dasher barrel, after a set back of less than 1 inch, shoot inside 5 inches at 1000 yards while I was practicing for a match that weekend. The barrel had 1500 +/- rounds thru it prior to set back. As far as the 1 or 2 shots, and the barrel settles down, still baffles me...

 

[davidjoe]

I have a question for the Benchrest shooters. This question has nagged at me for quite some time and it's time to ask. QUESTION: It has been my experience that after a R-E-A-L-L-Y good barrel scrubbing, depending on the "age" of the barrel, it takes at least 4-5 shots on a new barrel and up to 10-12 rounds on an "older" barrel, to get the barrel to "settle down" and start shooting well. How do y'all clean so often and get the barrel to settle in after maybe a shot or two in order to shoot a competitive group? This blows my mind.. Thanks..

When does a performance engine experience the most wear, according to motor oil manufacturers(?). Scrubbing to the bare steel frequently is the “cold start” equivalent, in my opinion. Nails on a chalkboard versus nails on wax paper.

It’s just a theory, but the shots hit higher from more pressure. The bullets don’t group well which means they probably engage in some semblance of shot-count-decreasing “chatter” or galling as the jackets grab, erode and release the bore differently until a certain threshold is reached.

Closer analogy than engines, the other parts of the mechanical process where metal on metal under pressure occurs, that we’d never seek to run “clean” : Tenon into action, bolt lugs against receiver, bolt inside action, camming surfaces, case into die, and even bullet into neck sometimes.

The lubricant choice in those instances is less important than whether there is any. Carbon soot from cellulose is better than nothing. Removing true interference that hurts accuracy would be necessary, but that would be rifle specific based on group size, just as is barrel replacement time.

 

[ShootDots]

When does a performance engine experience the most wear, according to motor oil manufacturers(?). Scrubbing to the bare steel frequently is the “cold start” equivalent, in my opinion. Nails on a chalkboard versus nails on wax paper.

It’s just a theory, but the shots hit higher from more pressure. The bullets don’t group well which means they probably engage in some semblance of shot-count-decreasing “chatter” or galling as the jackets grab, erode and release the bore differently until a certain threshold is reached.

Closer analogy than engines, the other parts of the mechanical process where metal on metal under pressure occurs, that we’d never seek to run “clean” : Tenon into action, bolt lugs against receiver, bolt inside action, camming surfaces, case into die, and even bullet into neck sometimes.

The lubricant choice in those instances is less important than whether there is any. Carbon soot from cellulose is better than nothing. Removing true interference that hurts accuracy would be necessary, but that would be rifle specific based on group size, just as is barrel replacement time.

In your statement "It's just a theory, but the shots hit higher from more pressure". I have never found this to be true. After cleaning, I put a light coating of oil in the barrel. For whatever reason it ALWAYS shoots low. At 1000 yards, the first shot is generally a full minute low. The next shot gets closer to where it is supposed to hit, but it may take 2 more shots to get it there. I have never experienced it otherwise..

 

[Milo 2.0]

When does a performance engine experience the most wear, according to motor oil manufacturers(?). Scrubbing to the bare steel frequently is the “cold start” equivalent, in my opinion. Nails on a chalkboard versus nails on wax paper.

It’s just a theory, but the shots hit higher from more pressure.

Like you said, your opinion. You should chrono before and after a cleaning. The first shot after a clean is way lower in speed.

 

[davidjoe]

Very good idea. I bet the thin film of oil after cleaning reduces the friction substantially, and also the pressure, and so the velocity. David Tubb said of HBN that more powder to reach same velocity as uncoated bullets would be required. Ultimately that higher velocity was possible with same brass wear, and that barrels wound last longer. But that powder loads safe for HBN would be off the charts high with uncoated bullets.

 

[davidjoe]

My cold bore shots also hit higher, and that does overlay the cleaning process. But I actually get sticky bolt lift and sometimes brass flow after a cleaning for a few shots.