357 loads in 38 cases.

[Ggmac]

Is this a case or chamber issue. If you are shooting in a 357 chamber that is rated for the pressure i would think it would be good. The case is a good question but due to cost i believe that the cases are identical with the exception of the length. This is a factory production cost issue where making them different would cost the producer more. I have not measured or know this as a fact which is why i ask. All my weapons are 357 chambered so if the case is the same this will be a non-issue. If there is data or a caution note somewhere that indicates the case web is thinner or is a safety concern i am very interested in that information. Im not defending it as a good idea but i am looking for data to support the idea one way or another.
I was taught that the idea is the same as 22s 22l and 22lr but that may be misinformation.

The data is already published , 38special is not 357 mag . Don't expect metallurgy dissection and safety from the innerweb. Read older published works , from the companies not experimenters , no matter what the name is .
I recently posted this elsewhere, next time at the range , try shooting with your less dominant eye and use you other hand . Just in case you have an accident .
A stuck bullet or bulged cyl would be the least of your problems .
Brass is cheap , and yes we have two hands and two eyes and BRAIN , use and keep all .

 

[AJC]

So keep the power down or face gets blown off got it. Now how about depth/oal. Is that any different than any other round. In a rifle recoil is a joke and in a pistol a valid concern. So for a rifle is seating long ok.

 

[Ken]

I sectioned a 357 case many years ago and compared it to a 38 Special case. Zero difference in that flavor of brass.

After that I didnt mind loading up some 38Special +P+ ammo. But I never got around to loading it to 357 levels because I ran out of room in the case for powder.

The cylinder walls are the weak link in revolvers.

I had a bullet mold with two crimp groves, one would give the same case capacity in a 38 case as a 357 case. Problem solved---- or why not just crimp a suitable bullet at 357 oal?

 

[Twicepop]

I saw some .38 Special load data that was reprinted from something that Elmer Keith once put out. It rivaled anything that is currently available in the .357 Magnum. There is a a load that was pioneered by Skeeter Skelton that used .38 Special cases, 2400 powder and the Lyman 155 grain gas check cast bullet (358156). This bullet has two crimp grooves, and it is crimped in the lower groove. I'll do some digging for the info and add it later today.

The Elmer Keith 38-44 "heavy load" uses 2400 powder starting with 12.0 grains and ends with 13.5 grains using a 173 grain cast (Lyman 358429) bullet. It's loaded to an overall length of 1.532" and according to the data, it maxes out at over 1400 fps.
The Skeeter Skelton 38-44 "heavy load" also uses 2400 powder, starting with 12.0 grains and ending with 13.5 grains. It differs by using a 160 grain cast gas check bullet (Lyman 3358156) loaded to overall length of 1.525", it maxes out at almost 1300 fps. Both of these loads use CCI standard small pistol primers.
This data comes from a copy of HANDLOADER Magazine #304 from October 2016. At this time I'm unable to find the data for making magnums from .38 Specials using the Lyman 358156 bullet loaded in it's lower crimp groove.

 

[JimT]

Another possible area of concern will be leading and carbon build up in the approximately 1/8 inch gap the .38 case will leave in the .357 chamber. This will be much more important and much harder to see in a rifle vs a revolver. Could lead to some chambering and pressure issues when you use actual.357 ammo.

Another reason you might want to follow the overwhelming cautionary advice given so far. Of course, natural selection is a beautiful thing.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Some while back, I had a Rossi .357 single shot. Great possum (opossum to you) gun. Took them off the branches a treat. However, as I was shooting mainly at night, a dropped 357 case was getting expensive. Given that I would shoot 30-40 rounds a night. I worked up a safe load with 125g pills and 296 that was real close to 357 and loaded in old 38 brass ( ex target shooting before getting a 32SW). No issues. Cheap loseable ( is that a word/) brass. Dead possums.

 

[AJC]

I am really curious about the negative tones. I thought this was supposed to be a positive fun forum. Im not talking about doing dumb stuff but asking questions to prevent stupid mistakes. Its not like this has not been tried before. No need to get emotional. If its not a great idea in your opinion just say that. There is obviously two vastly different opinions here.

 

[rr2030]

I am really curious about the negative tones. I thought this was supposed to be a positive fun forum. Im not talking about doing dumb stuff but asking questions to prevent stupid mistakes. Its not like this has not been tried before. No need to get emotional. If its not a great idea in your opinion just say that. There is obviously two vastly different opinions here.

Some people are passionate about safety, personally I feel that as a rule, what can go wrong, often does just that. So don't take this as a personal attack , think of it as a friendly hip check bumping you away from the reloading bench for a moment of pause.

"Im not talking about doing dumb stuff" (this is dumb stuff) "but asking questions to prevent stupid mistakes" (this is how stupid mistakes happen)

Im not worried about your .357, I am concerned about the round that rolls off the bench, un-noticed, at the range , and the guy with the light weight 38 special that finds free ammo.

 

[theallcineyes]

You say ".38 casing". If you are using .38 Special cases, there is simply no reason why you shouldn't be able to crimp a .38 Special case using .38 Special/.357 Magnum dies if you have your seater die set up correctly. While the .357 Magnum got inspired by guys like Elmer Keith loading up .38 Special cases to near .357 Magnum levels, it is not a good idea to do so. Oh, the case can take it. It's just the chance that at some time in the future someone could fire it in a .38 Special revolver with disastrous results.

 

[corning]

I am really curious about the negative tones. I thought this was supposed to be a positive fun forum. Im not talking about doing dumb stuff but asking questions to prevent stupid mistakes. Its not like this has not been tried before.

I'll go out on a limb. You asked a question, but didn't get the response you wanted? Safety, Safety, Safety! That's what it all about. The cases are differentiated for a reason. Use them for that reason, not just to save a few cents.

 

[Trophied]

Safety! Reminiscent of a thread on a pistol forum about necking down 40 S&W brass to make 357 Sig cases because it would be cheaper. Too many on that thread weren't even aware it was never developed or factory made from 40 S&W brass, but 10MM because it's a thicker web that can take the higher pressure. I think I'll stick with what manufacturers design myself.

 

[riflewoman]

I am really curious about the negative tones. I thought this was supposed to be a positive fun forum. Im not talking about doing dumb stuff but asking questions to prevent stupid mistakes. Its not like this has not been tried before. No need to get emotional. If its not a great idea in your opinion just say that. There is obviously two vastly different opinions here.

It is POSITIVE if we try to prevent you from an accident.

But that aside, Keith and Skelton loaded hot. Hotter than is prudent. When Keith did his work he emphatically stated that these were for use in “N” framed (44 Special sized) S&W revolvers. They were too hot for “K” framed revolvers. And it wasn’t just the cylinder. The “L” frame revolvers came from damage done to “K” framed 357 revolvers fed a steady diet of 357 ammo. The barrels cracked in the forcing cone. From Keith’s work came the 357 Revolver which was only an “N” frame for many years.

Also, the powder companies have currently published load recipes for +P loads and 357 loads that are within SAAMI pressure limits. Older data from experimenters like Keith and Skelton are fine, but these were developed many many years ago in revolvers using powder made in a different plant (Kenvil NJ) than currently and without pressure testing.

When I responded I said that your idea was a bad idea. Now I’ll also say that it’s a dumb idea. Either be safe or be dumb but don’t come here looking for approval of a dumb idea that can get you hurt.

Riflewoman out.

 

[AJC]

I'll go out on a limb. You asked a question, but didn't get the response you wanted? Safety, Safety, Safety! That's what it all about. The cases are differentiated for a reason. Use them for that reason, not just to save a few cents.

I did think it was a decent plan but I can take bad plan as an answer and move forward. I guess some people cant so a stronger response is or may be generally warranted.

 

[AJC]

Oh, the case can take it. It's just the chance that at some time in the future someone could fire it in a .38 Special revolver with disastrous results.

This is the worst answer I have ever herd. At what point do people start loading for this reason. So no wildcats should be allowed in the range ever. Don't reform cases from 308 into anything else because of stupid people. Load a 95 into a 223 because some guy may pick it up and try and shoot it.

 

[pirate ammo]

you ain't been sippen Jack Black have you.

 

[theallcineyes]

you ain't been sippen Jack Black have you.

Maybe just a little.

 

[joshb]

Heard. Sorry! Sometimes I can’t help myself

 

[rr2030]

Don't reform cases from 308 into anything else because of stupid people.

Correct, don't reform a .308 to fire .338 rounds unless you somehow, make the case longer, so its impossible to chamber the .338/308 in a .308 rifle. Hot .38's will drop in a standard .38 cylinder.

You asked, you received opinions, yet your feelings got hurt in the process when everyone here is speaking in the best interest of safety. If you're going to foolishly load the .38's to .357 specs, do it, just don't ask about it and not like the answers from a group with a combined couple of thousand years worth of loading and shooting experience. And that experience includes seeing many mishaps at the loading bench, rifle range, pistol range, hunting etc.

 

[Hoser]

With all this discussion about 38 loaded to 357 levels I figured I would bring some pictures to the party.

From left to right.

38 Special. Winchester +P headstamp
38 Special. Winchester headstamp
357 Mag. Federal headstamp
357 Mag. GFL/Fiocchi headstamp

All case heads mic within .005 of each other.

The regular old Winchester 38 Special case had the thickest case web walls and the +P had the thinnest.

I am going out on a limb and say that the brass strength isnt the limiting factor here. Granted there is a ton of other flavors of brass out there and this is a really small sample.

Back in another life, your brass headstamp had to read 357 Magnum if you wanted to push heavy bullets to a certain velocity/power factor. But, moonclipped 357 cases are long and dont drop into a cylinder as easily and as fast as 38 Special cases do. Most of us just chopped off 357 brass at 38 Special length, added some slow burning powder and a 158-180 gn bullet. Most everyone was using a 8 shot S&W N Frame. No, it didnt make it right, but I can still count to ten on my hands. I have shot some of that old ammo out of a S&W 686 (L Frame) and the cylinder and top strap didnt let go.

I have shot lots of 38 Special ammo out of a 357 Maximum TC Contender. I just scrubbed the chamber before sticking 357 Max ammo in there.

 

[Linko]

For Cowboy action shooting this topic is normal as loads are low power.

38 cases are loaded with !ead past the crimp groove to acheive the correct length for lever actionss to function. Most are very oal sensitive. 1.600" is the ticket.