Help Me Understand Full-Length/with Bushing Resizing

[Bc'z]

Carlos
What type of press is that in the picture.

Looks like a hornady progressive from the retaining spring be my guess.
@Carlos Hathcock can you get your press to cam over?
Setting up my Wilson die to give me .002 set back I had to cam over just a little.
Are you annealing?
I also saw the benefit same loading session
Very consistent set back and inside neck diameter.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I think that if folks would get rid of those expander balls in their dies and started using expander mandrels they would have less of a problem. Just my 2 cents....

^^^ This. I remove the expander ball on every die I own before I use it. My loaded rounds have very straight and concentric necks. If your necks have dings or flat spots, use an expander mandrel.

 

[Enosiophobia]

It's a Hornady lock n load progressive. The die is touching the shell holder so no feeler gauges are going in there. I was able to cam over a bit. No change.

Not yet annealing. Once fired. Was planning on it after this firing.

 

[Bc'z]

It's a Hornady lock n load progressive. The die is touching the shell holder so no feeler gauges are going in there. I was able to cam over a bit. No change.

Not yet annealing. Once fired. Was planning on it after this firing.

No totatay familiar with the hornady press but if it's like the Dillon it has a shell plate. If this is the case die modification would be necessary.
Or size brass on a separate single stage press. I do this alot when using my Dillon and just use 1st station for priming.
Or try a different die maybe?

 

[Whit holman]

Try more cam over if that does not fix it remove 5th off of the shell holder on a sharpening stone

 

[flintcreek6412]

First ditch the expander as others have said.
With the expander removed does your shoulder still grow?

Try different shell holders. I know my Hornady and Redding are different thicknesses. I can get way more bump with my Redding holder.

Try a Redding Competition shell holder set. Allows you to bump in .002 increments by changing holder without moving die. I just set my sizing die and leave it. Use the +.004 for one rifle and +.006 for the other

 

[flintcreek6412]

This is an example of the Redding Comp shell holders in use. To me it beats the heck out of trying to shave off holders or dies.

 

[Enosiophobia]

This is an example of the Redding Comp shell holders in use. To me it beats the heck out of trying to shave off holders or dies.

This was the exact video I saw. Unless I buy a single stage, wont work for this problem.

 

[BeefyT11]

Cheaper just to buy a different die

Or grind the bottom of the one you have. My only worry with that was always staying square

 

[BeefyT11]

Or tell hornady about your problem, Forster helped me out when I had a similar issue

 

[txtaxman]

I've been experiencing issues recently with my full length sizing dies (all Hornady). My last experiment shows the neck being pushed FORWARD by approx. .003" after full length sizing. I've always used the expander ball, perhaps because I didn’t know any better, but I has read its use also aided in "truing" the neck diameter and pushing imperfections to the outside of the neck. With my 6.5 Grendel, being a gasser, many necks are slightly deformed upon ejection so this feature is key for this particular caliber / gun.

I did a test last night and am confused why this is happening, but I suspect it's happening with all my dies as I have snug bolt closures on some reloaded rounds.

Any thoughts?

Photos / measurement are post sizing. I'm already touching plate so I'd have to trim the die height to get more "depth". I've heard this as an option previously but find it hard to believe I need to do that. Don’t think I should on a brand new set of dies. Oh well, maybe I'm learning something.

It's a Hornady lock n load progressive. The die is touching the shell holder so no feeler gauges are going in there. I was able to cam over a bit. No change.

Seems to me there are three possibilities: shell plate too thick, die too long, or chamber is shorter than normal.

Can you measure from the top of the shell plate (where the die touches) to the surface where the cartridge case rides. The standard for shell holders and shell plates is 0.125 inches.

If it is more than that, sized cases will be too long from cartridge base to datum (shoulder); conversely, if it is less than that, sized cases will be too short from cartridge base to datum (shoulder).

It appears from your photo that you could place a 0.005 inch feeler gauge under the cartridge case (without decapping pin) and size a case, as a test. Then measure the sized case and proceed from there.

Try a Redding Competition shell holder set. Allows you to bump in .002 increments by changing holder without moving die. I just set my sizing die and leave it. Use the +.004 for one rifle and +.006 for the other

The Redding Competition shell holders are for the opposite situation, i.e., when the case is being sized too short from cartridge base to datum (shoulder).

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I don't use the redding comp shell holders so someone please correct me if I'm wrong here but it is my understanding that the number 1 shell holder is a standard height holder and they prgressively get "taller thru number 10. If that's the case, they will not help the op's situation as it would only make it worse.

If he needs to bump the shoulder further than the die and a std holder will allow, he needs a shorter than std holder or to remove material from the bottom of the die.

I've done it both ways, removing material from the bottom of the die and from the top of the shell holder. I prefer to take it from the die so as to not need to keep up with a special holder for sizing for a specific chamber. I realize there are some variances even between "std" holders and using the same holder is a good idea but it just makes sense to me, to take it from the die rather than the holder, when possible. The die will be hard and will need to be cut in a lathe, or preferably ground but it can be done with carbide. It only needs done once and is not a difficult task if you have a lathe.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Seems to me there are three possibilities: shell plate too thick, die too long, or chamber is shorter than normal.

Can you measure from the top of the shell plate (where the die touches) to the surface where the cartridge case rides. The standard for shell holders and shell plates is 0.125 inches.

If it is more than that, sized cases will be too long from cartridge base to datum (shoulder); conversely, if it is less than that, sized cases will be too short from cartridge base to datum (shoulder).

It appears from your photo that you could place a 0.005 inch feeler gauge under the cartridge case (without decapping pin) and size a case, as a test. Then measure the sized case and proceed from there.



The Redding Competition shell holders are for the opposite situation, i.e., when the case is being sized too short from cartridge base to datum (shoulder).

Good post and you beat me to it.

 

[flintcreek6412]

The Redding Competition shell holders are for the opposite situation, i.e., when the case is being sized too short from cartridge base to datum (shoulder).

Good point! I should know better than to answer a thread before my coffee

 

[dkhunt14]

Here’s a question
With the die touching the shell holder can slide a feeler gauge under the shell holder and if so how many thousand?

Guffey would Be proud of you. Matt

 

[Enosiophobia]

Thanks for the responses. Hope to look further into this when I get home from work, which keeps interfering with my reloading time.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Or grind the bottom of the one you have. My only worry with that was always staying square

It doesnt matter, grind away

 

[Bc'z]

What Dusty said it's the top of the die that needs to remain square.

 

[Jdne5b]

Can you screw it in further and still make a full stroke? I used to load my ammo single stage on a Hornady AP like this. Eventually I got the shoulders to move.. by screwing the die in much farther than I thought possible. I also put a dummy die in one of the locations opposite where I was sizing, and ensured it was touching the shellplate. This provided some equal pressure on the shell plate and prevented some torqueing.

If none of this still works.. trim the die shorter as Dusty says.

 

[Enosiophobia]

Can you screw it in further and still make a full stroke? I used to load my ammo single stage on a Hornady AP like this. Eventually I got the shoulders to move.. by screwing the die in much farther than I thought possible. I also put a dummy die in one of the locations opposite where I was sizing, and ensured it was touching the shellplate. This provided some equal pressure on the shell plate and prevented some torqueing.

If none of this still works.. trim the die shorter as Dusty says.

I can screw the die in as far as I want. The shell plate is the limiting factor. Once it hits the bottom of the die, that's as far as it will go. The progressive plate is one thickness. To my knowledge, no other plate thicknesses are available.