222 Low-Drag

[Evan]

Almost 5 pages of nothing! Hmmmmm. I wonder. Just saying. I've been wrong before...Many times.

That would be almost funny. The whole time deadduck has been using a 22-250 to generate the chrony numbers and mocking everything up for the pictures with some 222 brass he had laying around.

 

[paperpuncher]

Bore Rider??

 

[Coleridge]

Thanks for posting that link. I have been using that exact tool for a bit but reassuring to know that it's recommended from someone here.

For some reason this is getting off track. I have no intent to insult anyone here but I'm also a person to defend someone that has been unjustifiably defamed. The gunsmith is not standing beside me, he helps when I'm stuck and I ask. Demeaning him because of my inexperience is just wrong.

Again, as I responded a few post ago regarding pressure concerns I will repeat another time - the chamber was designed to alleviate pressures.

I have no grand delusion of becoming rich with this cartridge. As stated many times before I'd just like to be the first to experience it.

Can you please let us know how a self proclaimed novice stumbled on something the greatest minds in rifles & physics has missed for well over 100 years of cartridge designs? Think most would guess a copy of other designs into "a different" parent case at best (if not an explanation would go LONG way in your "case" -pun intended). Just cause you "think" a shape or pitch "alleviates pressures" doesn't mean it does. With good brass & tight chambers, about any cartridge will hold excessive pressures pretty well. But the velocities you showed with the charge you listed is a bit optimistic at best---> dreaming of safe operating... Not matter what shape or trick - there is no free lunch. To create energy, you have to consume fuel - no way around it. (more pressure or more powder)

BTW- The Ford Pinto was designed to be a safe & efficient mode of transportation...

 

[steve123]

There was a time I had nearly the same cartridge in mind for my AR so I could shoot the heavier higher BC longer bullets like the OP is doing. But I was afraid I would have been dissatisfied with the velocities I would get. I like shooting at farther distances so sometimes a heavier bullet can't be driven fast enough to make up for it's extra BC.

I also contemplated having a 223 reamer made with a short neck so I could use the 75 ELDM.

The answer back then became a 6mmFatRat.

Then the 224V came out. Now I'm waiting for Lapua brass in 224V to become available.

Plus I have a 223AI bolt rifle so...

Anymore I try not to push the brass like I used to have a habit of.

But these projects like the OP is doing are interesting and fun to watch.

 

[snert]

Am I reading it wrong (and I may be) but after discussing datum, the OP seems to be talking about rim? Confused. Are we sure he is measuring the correct place and with the correct tool, and understanding what it means when that point "grows"?

 

[Evan]

Am I reading it wrong (and I may be) but after discussing datum, the OP seems to be talking about rim? Confused. Are we sure he is measuring the correct place and with the correct tool, and understanding what it means when that point "grows"?

No. Hopefully my description made it clear, but we're all flying blind here which makes advice or direction difficult. If he dropped all the details right now, and someone wanted to copy him, they'd be a MINIMUM of 12 weeks away from having a reamer in hand ready to cut a chamber. More likely 16 weeks given my past luck with the reamer folks and what I've been reading. If the copycat isn't a gunsmith then the time to a completed gun is reasonably even longer. Not sure why the secrecy, but if deadduck doesn't wanna share then he doesn't have to.

 

[deadduck357]

That point shouldn't be growing. That said, if your reamer (and chamber) measure at 3769, and your brass is all around 375, then that's perfectly acceptable. A tight chamber reamer may be spec'ed at 0.001 total gap, (i.e. 376 chamber when brass measures 375) which works but requires considerably more care. Pay close attention to your extraction during bolt lift. It can be a subtle change if you're slowly approaching dangerous pressure. When pressure is too high and folks talk about hard bolt lift, that's because the case is no longer springing back from the chamber walls and your extractor is having to pull it free against all that friction. A case that does that could very well be trashed due to the excessive pressure flowing the brass. If your sizing die is bringing that datum point back down to a uniform size and nothing is sticky during bolt close or open, then you're just accepting that brass life will be shorter and that you're pushing it hard with high pressures.

The reamer print is .3769 at .200.
We've been watching bolt close and lift very closely, all has been easily opening.

 

[deadduck357]

Can we see a pic of a fired case looking at the primer??

Left is from the bolt gun. Yes i know it needs to be bushed but can't send it off right now, need it, will do when I'm testing more with the other rifle.

 

[deadduck357]

That would be almost funny. The whole time deadduck has been using a 22-250 to generate the chrony numbers and mocking everything up for the pictures with some 222 brass he had laying around.

I wouldn't waste y'alls time or my money.

 

[deadduck357]

No. Hopefully my description made it clear, but we're all flying blind here which makes advice or direction difficult.

Very clear and very helpful.

 

[Evan]

*thumbs up*

I was mostly just teasing with the others over your relative secrecy. I look forward to more results!

 

[xswanted]

Left is from the bolt gun. Yes i know it needs to be bushed but can't send it off right now, need it, will do when I'm testing more with the other rifle.

What is the right from? I can’t remeber if you’re shooting this in an AR as well.

It doesn’t look too crazy.

Are you positive your chronograph was reading correctly?

I guess I’m still befuddled as to where this speed is coming from.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

I'd still like to see your reamer print-----always interested in anything better for bolt guns.

Any truly new improvements with the 223 head sizes might be hard to accomplish.

As an old feller once told me-----"son, this ground's been plowed over 15 times, there
ain't no more bird nests on the ground".

Do you think your new round might be a better deal for bolt guns ?

Please keep us updated.

A. Weldy

 

[deadduck357]

Can you please let us know how a self proclaimed novice stumbled on something the greatest minds in rifles & physics has missed for well over 100 years of cartridge designs?


BTW- The Ford Pinto was designed to be a safe & efficient mode of transportation...

Had a theory, put it to paper, ran many figures, got some questions answered and advise, several models, many papers later took the final specs to my gunsmith, we made a prototype, got cartridge specs to print. Oh and from reading here over the years.

I would never sit in a Pinto much less use it for transportation.

 

[deadduck357]

Are you positive your chronograph was reading correctly?

Verified with a Oehler 35P.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

Is there any chance you might have been known as Mike ?

A. Weldy

 

[deadduck357]

Is there any chance you might have been known as Mike ?

A. Weldy

No.

 

[Coleridge]

]

Those cases look fine. If you actually broke 3K with them in a short barrel, you have rewrote physics and need to work for NASA...

If that being the case, I would be VERY interested in seeing your "figures". Actually without something more than the 5 pages of "I've created something spectacular - but not going to tell you about it" info so far... I'm done with this thread completely.

 

[deadduck357]

What is the right from?

Aero M4E1 upper & lower
Shilen Match barrel 20" 1-7
Superlative Arms .875" Adj. gas block
Midwest Ind. SLH 12.625" handguard
Velocity trigger
Toolcraft BCG
Geissele SCH
ALG lower parts kit
Magpul MOE-K2 grip
Magpul PRS Gen3 stock w/rifle length buffer, spring and tube.
Nikon X1000 4-16x50SF scope
Badger Ord. Unimount

 

[deadduck357]

222 Low-Drag with Hornady 88 gr ELD Match bullets.

Worked up some loads for velocity testing out of bolt gun.

Hornady 224V 88gr ELD Match has a MV of 2675... out of 24"

222 Low-Drag 88gr ELD Match - 20"


Federal 224V 90gr Gold Medal MK has a MV of 2700 out of a 24"

Still more

Ran out of case capacity - no pressure signs. Will have to try another powder to see if any more velocity is available.