Scale or Annealer

[KenOath]

no question Adams autotrickler system

only reason anyone would.say different is they have never used it

True ^^^

 

[Jeff A]

My vote would be to get both! You can get a salt bath annealing system for just north of $140 and it does an excellent job. Then you would still have the $ for the FX120i.

Never trust a guy named Rick with a last name comprised of numbers. I'm just sayin'.

 

[Jeff A]

FX120i with the trickler. You'll use it for a lot more than powder. Of course, I love my AMP annealer.

 

[Ccrider]

Don’t have an amp. I bought an fx120i and autotrickler to replace my Pact scale and dispenser unit. My goal was to speed the process up, more than an accuracy concern. No way I would go back.

I am debating about whether to get an autothrow unit to go on top of the fx120i. I am using a Harrell’s and have to transfer from the thrower to the scale. Not having to touch the setup would be nice. But, I am working on getting consistent throwing with the Harrell’s so I will likely hold off on the autothrow for a while.

I am totally comfortable with my salt base annealing setup. If I did not use it, I would skip annealing and chunk the cases. I can buy a lot of cases for 1400 bucks.

 

[Baer45]

Hello,
I'm looking for suggestions on either upgrading my scale or purchasing an annealer

Right now I am using the chargemaster 1500 for weighing/throwing charges and am not sure it is accurate enough(+/- .1) for my liking. So I am considering upgrading to the fx 120i(w/auto-throw&trickle), but not sure if that money would be better spent on an annealer(ampv2). I know I will be purchasing both eventually but looking for opinions on what to get first. I'm not a benchrest shooter but just starting to get into prs and fclass. Also I'm not taking into account brass life increase, just looking for accuracy/consistency.

I have both and that is a tough one! I have a Dillon electronic scale and a Harrels powder drop as back ups to the FXi. The AMP is sooooo good, I would be tempted to drop and trickle to the Dillon which I find more accurate then my rcbs (LES drift) and go with the AMP. The AMP is like a suppressor, once you use it, you can never go back....good luck! PS. If 90% of your shooting is 800 yds plus...I’d go with scale. It’s the only place I think you would notice the difference vs the annealer which you will see right away....

 

[JimSC]

Six of one half a dozen of the other I would say. I don't think anyone has yet to provide empirical proof in a controlled statistical test that annealing does anything for velocity consistency or case life. As far as the scale goes isn't the purpose of load development to find flat nodes in the velocity that span at least .1 or .2 gns in either direction? I have seen .4 and .5 gn wide nodes where velocity was within 7 FPS when the right combo of primer, bullet, and powder choice was found and I have not been doing this stuff that long. I am sure that most everyone here has ran ladder tests that show the same

 

[Sniper338]

I bought the scale first, and just now bought the annealer. The scale is a much bigger piece so get it first

 

[Tpetrat]

Have you checked your throws against another scale? Any other problems with the scale? If no to each question, I would go with the annealer with the thought that once the 1500 gets hinky and RCBS says you are out of warranty, you will be out of luck.

Yes I have checked it against two other higher quality scales which is what caused me to raise this question. I know the scale isn't as accurate as I would like but I have never annealed brass and it seems the benefits on accuracy are often argued.

 

[Tpetrat]

Redding #2 scale to verify your charges now and then. Even then under throw on RCBS then trickle up to your needs on Redding....HB

Haven't used a manual scale in probably 15 years is the accuracy on par with the FX? If I went that route I could get both now

 

[Tpetrat]

The FX120i would be my choice with a Tripp-Lite line conditioner......

Regards
Rick

Yes the line conditioner (different brand) did have a noticeable impact to the rcbs accuracy. Would definitely use on the Fx

 

[Tpetrat]

I’d get the scale. They are really nice units.

But more broadly, there are a lot better ways to spend over two grand (for both items) that will have a bigger impact on your shooting. Those are among the last things I would buy unless money isn’t an issue.

What things are those? money is always an issue. But no buying these items will not take away from ammo/practice. And they are the two last large purchases I can think of. Unless I took a class or some one on one training which I could see being in this price range

 

[Tpetrat]

Six of one half a dozen of the other I would say. I don't think anyone has yet to provide empirical proof in a controlled statistical test that annealing does anything for velocity consistency or case life. As far as the scale goes isn't the purpose of load development to find flat nodes in the velocity that span at least .1 or .2 gns in either direction? I have seen .4 and .5 gn wide nodes where velocity was within 7 FPS when the right combo of primer, bullet, and powder choice was found and I have not been doing this stuff that long. I am sure that most everyone here has ran ladder tests that show the same

I was thinking the same, just dont have experience with annealing so wanted to get the forums opinion.

Thank you everyone for your help. Ill be going with the fx scale and add the autothrow and trickle addons. After further research building an induction annealer will be extremely cost effective and would probably be a fun little project

 

[Tpetrat]

I shot a 600-32x at 600yds with 6BRX brass that had been fired more than 12 times without ever being annealed.

are you shooting a .223 or .308??

.308 but will be moving to 6mm dasher soon

 

[hambone1971]

Haven't used a manual scale in probably 15 years is the accuracy on par with the FX? If I went that route I could get both now

My Redding #2 can tell/move if I add one granule of RL16 reloading 6.5 Creedmoor. It's always ready to go never needs warmed up hours to stabilize like all the other electronic ones i've owned and it repeats the same measurement EVERY TIME. I use a RCBS chargmaster lite sometimes to under dump charges fast and then I trickle them up on the Redding. I'm sure I can get it 1/2 of .1 grain if i need to but .1 grain is plenty close for my node of 41.8 RL16. Do we really need all that resolution?? Benchrest guys just dump away with their Harrell's Powder Measure dumpers and shoot....HB

 

[JimSC]

Haven't used a manual scale in probably 15 years is the accuracy on par with the FX? If I went that route I could get both now

I have a Lyman M2 set up with a extended pointer and a webcam that will register when you add a kernel of Varget or 4350. They are slow to operate though. Also got a Tree KHR 123 that will resister either .02 or .0 followed by a .03 with the next kernel H4350. It has more warts than princess on a man hunt in a frog pond but I can get low single digit SD's with it. The Tree takes a second or two to register small amounts and it is very temp sensitive. Below 60F in my shop and it goes spastic. The FX is a better scale by all measures but the Tree works well enough for my loads and it is repeatable plus or minus .02 gns as long as it is above 60 or 62 F in the shop. I figure my loads are all within .04 of target weight which is fine for the nodes I use

 

[Baer45]

My Redding #2 can tell/move if I add one granule of RL16 reloading 6.5 Creedmoor. It's always ready to go never needs warmed up hours to stabilize like all the other electronic ones i've owned and it repeats the same measurement EVERY TIME. I use a RCBS chargmaster lite sometimes to under dump charges fast and then I trickle them up on the Redding. I'm sure I can get it 1/2 of .1 grain if i need to but .1 grain is plenty close for my node of 41.8 RL16. Do we really need all that resolution?? Benchrest guys just dump away with their Harrell's Powder Measure dumpers and shoot....HB

They don’t shoot to a 1,000 yds and if they do are most likely using the auto Trickler on the fxi....there is a lot of difference in vertical drop from 200 yds to 1000...

 

[hambone1971]

They don’t shoot to a 1,000 yds and if they do are most likely using the auto Trickler on the fxi....there is a lot of difference in vertical drop from 200 yds to 1000...

The Redding is way more than adequate to load good 1000 yard ammo at 1/2 of .1 grain resolution. I shoot that distance all the time and further. The digital scales have been total headaches for me, gotta let them warm up or stay plugged in 24/7 don't repeat, constant tare, tare, tare because they drift. They are not necessary, just my opinion. Put that money in more bullets, powder and practice or high quality scope.

 

[Twoboxer]

I'd go with the A&D FX120i and AutoTrickler first for three very practical reasons.

That combo will eliminate any and all scale frustrations you may have. And if you aren't using an FX120i (or better), you have frustrations.

It will ensure your powder charges stay within your rifle's tested accuracy node. The "+/-0.1gr" performance of other scales represents a practical spread of ~0.3gr which may put some charges outside the node, especially at lower target weights.

There are other ways to anneal in the interim; there isn't an interim method of delivering better than a ~0.3gr powder charge range.

 

[JFrank]

L

120i and Auto Trickler would be my first purchase.

Ive yet to purchase an expensive scale however if so, I would follow Rushty's sound advice.
J

 

[Baer45]

L

Ive yet to purchase an expensive scale however if so, I would follow Rushty's sound advice.
J

I have, I use an A&D 120i scale w/auto throw and anneal with an AMP....I couldn’t imagine throwing powder for competitive long range loads...I love
them both and any concerns over money spent are long gone...