Flying with and Shipping ammo

[XTR]

Just a reminder, most of this has been covered here before. If you are flying to matches (I just finished loading for BSWN)

As checked baggage the airlines Southwest will allow 11lbs per passenger, and they include the weight of the packaging. That works out to about 150 rounds of 200gr 308s in standard 100ct MTM cases, considering the round count for the BSWN is in the range of 300 folks that are flying need to be planning a shipment.

UPS will ship up to 30kg (66lbs) per package marked "cartridges, small arms" ORM-D. I'm headed there today with a box o' bullets.

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-cent.../hazardous-materials/shipping-ammunition.page

 

[David Christian]

If you are flying Alaska airlines for the entire trip, they allow up to 50 pounds of ammo on domestic flights.

 

[hogpatrol]

If you are flying Alaska airlines for the entire trip, they allow up to 50 pounds of ammo on domestic flights.

From their website, ammo restrictions, too funny:

"The projectile must be no larger than 11/16" in diameter, the size of a dime".

 

[BenPerfected]

American Airlines only allowed factory ammo in the original factory box. They also had a small weight limit of 10 lbs and it had to be shipped separate from the firearms. The gun case also had to be approved. This was a few years ago and the rules may have changed. The rules were also different between carriers and the TSA had there own set of rules......consider UPS. The important part was “in the factory box”.
Ben

 

[hogpatrol]

American Airlines only allowed factory ammo in the original factory box. They also had a small weight limit of 10 lbs and it had to be shipped separate from the firearms. The gun case also had to be approved. This was a few years ago and the rules may have changed. The rules were also different between carriers and the TSA had there own set of rules......consider UPS. The important part was “in the factory box”.
Ben

All members of ICAO (99.9% of the world with commercial aviation) adhere to a set of an agreed upon international flight regulations. This is where the five kilos amount is derived from. It prevents every airline having it's own set of rules for the shipment of ammo in international travel. Flying abroad with firearms and ammo and needing to make three connections, passengers don't need or want to be inconvenienced by different sets of rules in each country. Domestic airlines flying within their respective countries have their own set of rules but most adhere to ICAO. TSA regulates the location of the ammo in the aircraft.

 

[BenPerfected]

None of my travel with guns and ammo has been international.

 

[wedgy]

When flying back to CA from Idaho the flaming United rep insisted that the ammo had to be locked in the case with the gun, which in California is considered a loaded gun.

 

[Kurz]

When flying back to CA from Idaho the flaming United rep insisted that the ammo had to be locked in the case with the gun, which in California is considered a loaded gun.

In the years since TSA came into being, I have only ever had to acknowledge what the TSA agent had to say, never what the airline rep stated. I still carry a copy of the complete set of rules and regulations just in case. I walk up to the counter and inform the agent I have a firearm to be inspected and they notify TSA. That agent takes me aside, opens the case and inspects the firearm. When satisfied, they place a piece of paperwork inside the case and let me lock it. Flying out of Phoenix frequently can allow you to see literally dozens of folks standing in line for firearms inspection.

 

[centershot]

If you ship loaded ammo via UPS, it most likely will not be accepted at a UPS Store. You have to take it to the main terminal in the city you live in. In my case, it is a PIA as it is an hour each way.

 

[hogpatrol]

In the years since TSA came into being, I have only ever had to acknowledge what the TSA agent had to say, never what the airline rep stated. I still carry a copy of the complete set of rules and regulations just in case. I walk up to the counter and inform the agent I have a firearm to be inspected and they notify TSA. That agent takes me aside, opens the case and inspects the firearm. When satisfied, they place a piece of paperwork inside the case and let me lock it. Flying out of Phoenix frequently can allow you to see literally dozens of folks standing in line for firearms inspection.

Last hunting trip with guns out of Philly, my hunting buddy had his gun case keys requested by TSA to open his case in a back room/secure area. He had a copy of the rules and regs, tried to show to them where he had to be present. No cigar. I can spout rules and regs and argue all I want but if I want to get on the plane, maybe make a connection and continue on to my destination, I just smile and go with the flow. YMMV.

 

[hogpatrol]

If you ship loaded ammo via UPS, it most likely will not be accepted at a UPS Store. You have to take it to the main terminal in the city you live in. In my case, it is a PIA as it is an hour each way.

Just curious, for those that live too far from a depot, can you schedule a pickup for ammo or must it be brought in person? I'm sure UPS makes pickups and deliveries to those areas.

 

[BenPerfected]

If you ship loaded ammo via UPS, it most likely will not be accepted at a UPS Store. You have to take it to the main terminal in the city you live in. In my case, it is a PIA as it is an hour each way.

Same in Dallas....main UPS store only to ship ammo

 

[XTR]

If you ship loaded ammo via UPS, it most likely will not be accepted at a UPS Store. You have to take it to the main terminal in the city you live in. In my case, it is a PIA as it is an hour each way.

UPS Store locations cannot accept anything HAZMAT, and ammo is, even though if you have less than 30kg its can be shipped as a limited quantity in an"excepted package" and can be marked ORM-D the DOT regulations still apply and the training requirements of 49CFR172 subpart H are applicable, and non of the UPS Stores meet that requirement, at least that I know of.

This isn't their bad, at least in this case they are not trying to be a PITA or overly cautious with out understanding. They aren't trained and it would be a violation, to change that requires training. That is an expense, and a recurring training, not a one time thing, and the cost/benefit for the location just isn't there.

 

[Kurz]

my hunting buddy had his gun case keys requested by TSA to open his case in a back room/secure area. He had a copy of the rules and regs, tried to show to them where he had to be present. No cigar. I can spout rules and regs and argue all I want but if I want to get on the plane, maybe make a connection and continue on to my destination, I just smile and go with the flow.

There will always be someone who can suggest anecdotally an exception to rules as they are written. We can't control the individual TSA agent. However, the one time they did try to deny me being present during the examination of my gun case, I simply requested the presence of a local policeman who are generally all over the airports I frequent. That stopped the TSA agent cold. I watched as he did his job then locked the case myself. I can tell you dozens of horror stories about the abuses of power TSA has applied to me personally. Some are humorous while are others are extremely objectionable. Uncontrolled power can go to some folk's heads.

Enjoy the day!

 

[hogpatrol]

Kurz, Relieve yourself of the majority of those problems with TSA Pre and Global Entry. I have NEVER had a problem with TSA. I don't argue, I don't quote regs, I don't tell them how to do their jobs, I don't try and skirt the rules, even the made up ones, I smile and exhibit a friendly attitude and whisk through the lines like a dose of salts. On the other hand, some of my buddies, for one reason or another but mainly because they don't like the government, get a case of the ass and then it's all over but the crying. YMMV

 

[Gappmast]

I know it's the regulation but would you feel safer on a airplane with ammunition in the hold that was in a flimsy "original factory box" or in one of the plastic boxes we use when reloading.

I flew United in November with ammo in a plastic box in my checked bag. I didn't declare it and at the end of the day everybody was happy

 

[BenPerfected]

I am not happy.....we all spend a lot of $ to fly safely and have security in all the airports. If you feel inconvenienced with the TSA procedures, take a bus or train.
Geez,
Ben

 

[hogpatrol]

If anyone feels the TSA/Airport goat rope is a hassle, try flying some African or European countries. In 2017, I was in Mozambique and upon entry was electronically fingerprinted, got my bags off the only carousel carried them over to a conveyor where they were screened/xrayed. Leaving the country my hand had to match my entry prints. The vast majority of people in this country don't have a clue as to how good they have it.

 

[Kurz]

Kurz, Relieve yourself of the majority of those problems with TSA Pre and Global Entry. I have NEVER had a problem with TSA. I don't argue, I don't quote regs, I don't tell them how to do their jobs, I don't try and skirt the rules, even the made up ones, I smile and exhibit a friendly attitude and whisk through the lines like a dose of salts. On the other hand, some of my buddies, for one reason or another but mainly because they don't like the government, get a case of the ass and then it's all over but the crying. YMMV

For some reason you misconstrue what I've written and then proceed to lecture me like I am a petulant child. I can tell you for certain, I am neither petulant nor a child. For 99.99% of the time "I smile and exhibit a friendly attitude and whisk through the lines like a dose of salts". There have been a couple of occasions when yes, I did point out some heavy handedness but I fly 26 to 30 times a year and have found that most of the agents will be receptive once asked about the facts. And I do have Global Entry which has absolutely nothing to do with firearms and flying. You have to fill out the EEI and Form 4457 to leave and return with firearms. I have flown to the British Isles but I avoid Heathrow like the plague. I fly directly into Dublin, with permits of course, compete and either fly home or take a boat over to GB to shoot there. I have chosen to not shoot in any African countries for the last 20 years. The corruption is beyond belief. So I choose to not play their game no matter what others suggest. That part of shooting is just not that important to me any more.

Enjoy your trips and the process!

And God Bless the United States for the Freedoms we still enjoy!

 

[hogpatrol]

For some reason you misconstrue what I've written and then proceed to lecture me like I am a petulant child. I can tell you for certain, I am neither petulant nor a child. For 99.99% of the time "I smile and exhibit a friendly attitude and whisk through the lines like a dose of salts". There have been a couple of occasions when yes, I did point out some heavy handedness but I fly 26 to 30 times a year and have found that most of the agents will be receptive once asked about the facts. And I do have Global Entry which has absolutely nothing to do with firearms and flying. You have to fill out the EEI and Form 4457 to leave and return with firearms. I have flown to the British Isles but I avoid Heathrow like the plague. I fly directly into Dublin, with permits of course, compete and either fly home or take a boat over to GB to shoot there. I have chosen to not shoot in any African countries for the last 20 years. The corruption is beyond belief. So I choose to not play their game no matter what others suggest. That part of shooting is just not that important to me any more.

Enjoy your trips and the process!

And God Bless the United States for the Freedoms we still enjoy!

Whew! Don't be offended. Just suggesting an easier way. No need to get your shorts all twisted up. Life's too short.