Pros & Cons of a .308 Win versus the 6.5 Creedmoor?

[walker2713]

Reading a lot of threads here, especially a very current one regarding the preferred twist rate for a proposed .308 purchase, I'd like some feedback on whether the .308 still has a place in the 300 and 600 yard benchrest world?

It's clear to all but the most oblivious that the apotheosis of the 6.5 Creedmoor has relegated its predecessors to the garbage dump, or at least to the back of the gun safe.

Even so, what say you?

George

 

[Ares]

The rest of the world might be unenlightened , but when did the 308 winchester and 6,5 creedmoor ever have a position in the 300 and 600 yard BR world??

Look into the 6 BR / Dasher, or a 6,5x47 L if benchrest is the only intended purpose.

The 6,5 creedmoor, really has nothing to offer that is'nt there from before.
And the 6,5x47 lapua is a better starting point if accuracy is your goal (BR?).
Usually you don't feed a BR rifle through a short action DBM, so what purpose does the 6,5 Cm serve in a BR rifle?

Someone must have been drinking too much of the snipershide coolaid.

 

[Evan]

The 308 hasn't done much in benchrest at any range. Only reason to use it would be if your class requires it. It's not even competitive in PRS.

6.5 creedmoor could maybe be competitive, if given enough effort and luck, but if you just want something that works, you'd be foolish to do anything but something from the 6BR family.

 

[mongo chicago]

Other than being able to cycle through an AR platform, I don't understand all the hoopla about the Creedmoor cartridge. OK, it is accurate. But so are other 6.5s.

 

[Grimstod]

The rest of the world might be unenlightened , but when did the 308 winchester and 6,5 creedmoor ever have a position in the 300 and 600 yard BR world??

Look into the 6 BR / Dasher, or a 6,5x47 L if benchrest is the only intended purpose.

The 6,5 creedmoor, really has nothing to offer that is'nt there from before.
And the 6,5x47 lapua is a better starting point if accuracy is your goal (BR?).
Usually you don't feed a BR rifle through a short action DBM, so what purpose does the 6,5 Cm serve in a BR rifle?

Someone must have been drinking too much of the snipershide coolaid.

I echo this 100%.

 

[walker2713]

The 308 hasn't done much in benchrest at any range. Only reason to use it would be if your class requires it. It's not even competitive in PRS.

6.5 creedmoor could maybe be competitive, if given enough effort and luck, but if you just want something that works, you'd be foolish to do anything but something from the 6BR family.

Just FYI, I'm already shooting a 6BRX in 300 and 600 custom class, and was thinking about a gun for the "factory" class.

I made the post to see what kind of continuing interest there is in the .308 for that format.

I could buy a Savage F Class or Benchrest in 6BR....that's where I started 7 years ago....but was thinking about something different.

Thanks for the responses...

George

 

[Bc'z]

Being's I already have a 6five, I'd go with a 308.
Although a .284 win would fit the factory requirement.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Just FYI, I'm already shooting a 6BRX in 300 and 600 custom class, and was thinking about a gun for the "factory" class.

I made the post to see what kind of continuing interest there is in the .308 for that format.

I could buy a Savage F Class or Benchrest in 6BR....that's where I started 7 years ago....but was thinking about something different.

Thanks for the responses...

George

George, I think you pretty much answered your own question. The .308 which there is a class for it in PRS and f class is suited for these and not benchrest, JMO. Also I believe the same goes for the 6.5 Creedmoor. You may be able to take the 6.5 Creedmoor and out shoot the 6BR but I believe it would be a rarity. Like I said, JMO.

 

[Laurie]

Just FYI, I'm already shooting a 6BRX in 300 and 600 custom class, and was thinking about a gun for the "factory" class.

I made the post to see what kind of continuing interest there is in the .308 for that format.

In the UK we run a 'factory class' in our 600 and 1,000 yard BR matches. The 308 was fully competitive until as recently as two or three years ago, although 26-inch barrel Remington 700s and similar always got a lot of hard competition from the 6.5-284 Savage 12 'F-Class'. (The variability of Savage 12 6BR and 6.5-284 barrels was the one thing that stopped them being unbeatable, plus it's near impossible to get replacement factory barrels for them here.) As people have shot their 308s out, I don't expect to see any replacements any time soon.

In recent years, it has been other 6.5s winning the class, but not that many Creedmoors as the Ruger RPR and similar Blackticools shoot well for the money, but not as well as some alternatives. There are some VERY good European heavy barrel 'varmint' factory rifles in 6.5X55mm and that is the winning formula for the moment here.

6.5X47L? Not a chance - no true factory rifles. We had an unbeatable competitor with an 6.5X47L Accuracy International and another with a 308 Victrix FTR rifle both of which cost as much as true custom jobs. The UKBRA had a look at these and other similar 'factory' jobs and ruled that if the barrel is supplied by a custom barrelmaker - which applies to both of these models - it goes into the appropriate custom rifle class. The amazing Darrel Evans 6.5X47L Accuracy International is still 100% competitive in our Heavy Gun, although the arrival of 40lb plus weight 6BR and BRA monsters onto the UK BR scene is steadily changing that.

 

[walker2713]

Thanks, Laurie....that's the kind of feedback I was hoping for.

George

 

[Coleridge]

Other than being able to cycle through an AR platform, I don't understand all the hoopla about the Creedmoor cartridge. OK, it is accurate. But so are other 6.5s.

Am I missing something here? I always thought the creedmoor & 308 were both the same size (length) cartridge. Neither being able to fit in the AR 15 (AR-10 yes but so does almost any short action cartridge).

If your shooting factory benchrest, I don't think there is anything out there that can touch the LRPV (F-class or BR) Savages in 6BR. Accuracy, ease of shooting, & shoot-ability.

 

[walker2713]

Am I missing something here? I always thought the creedmoor & 308 were both the same size (length) cartridge. Neither being able to fit in the AR 15 (AR-10 yes but so does almost any short action cartridge).

If your shooting factory benchrest, I don't think there is anything out there that can touch the LRPV (F-class or BR) Savages in 6BR. Accuracy, ease of shooting, & shoot-ability.

I can't disagree....but some of us are afflicted by a desire (or wish) for something "different."

If the Savage 6BR is vanilla, maybe I'm looking around, hoping to learn that pistachio or neopolitan is out there, and capable of fitting into the 300/600 bench rest format.

And, of course, that's what "discussion" forums are about.

 

[wbm]

There are some VERY good European heavy barrel 'varmint' factory rifles in 6.5X55mm and that is the winning formula for the moment here.

My over a century old, and still actively accurate, M96 and I are more than a little gratified by this bit of news.

 

[Leo Smith]

I keep putting bullets in the same hole.. Probably those Defective 6.5 CM I shoot., I will have to find a Better less efficient gun so I can be cool too.

 

[Bc'z]

Ok not vanilla, last week at the range I shot a rifle belonging to my gunsmith.
He took a 6brx with 1500 rounds on it. Set it back, rechambered it to be a 6cm improved.
He was fireforming brass. He said he built it as he doesn't want to trim brass, as it's his least favorite thing to do.
As far as accuracy goes, 1 hole including my shot, and I suck!
BTW he competes here locally at 600.
Definitely not vanilla.

 

[R.Morehouse]

If you put your BR reloading bench skills and your custom bullets ( I use Bob C.'s 141's ) the 6.5 Creedmoor will stay with pretty much any 6.5 out there in the ......Out To 1k.......comps. As well as run through an AR or feed through a bottom metal.............The same can be said for the 308 i am pretty sure but i think there is much better factory support for the 6.5 Creedmoor on the ammo shelf. If you put the round in the hands of the top LR-BR shooters in the country a whole lot of folks would be singing a different tune.

Regards
Rick

 

[shoot4fun]

Our match is limited by our 520 yard range. We have a factory class and a modified class in our club's BR match and, just in case, we have a local rule that allows the F-Class guys heavier rifles to be legal so they can come out and play. F & M classes have run the caliber gauntlet but, presently, the 6.5 Creedmoor rules. We did have a shooter who competed in both our match and FTR come shoot with us for a couple of years and his 308 was the class of the field. He could and did take down all the 6.5 Creedmoor shooters. IMO, the 308 can stand up to any competition out to 600 yards IF the shooter is up to it. Good gun handling, reloading practices and wind reading are essential with any caliber but (again my opinion) the 308 requires you to sharpen all those skills.

 

[Laurie]

My over a century old, and still actively accurate, M96 and I are more than a little gratified by this bit of news.

The 6.5X55mm is still an outstandingly good performer and a much more popular choice than 260 Rem, 7mm-08 and similar among European deerstalkers too. Hence its continuing to be offered in top quality versions of factory Tikka, Sako, Blaser, Sauer etc rifles.

It has three downsides, or 'downsides' for those who make them so. It is a long action job (but not for single-shot competition builds); its performance seems mediocre based on handloading manual data which takes the low SAAMI MAP and often then downgrades that a bit more; US factory cartridges are criminally underloaded even by SAAMI standards. European factory ammo is loaded to the hotter 'SE' / 'SKAN' pressures and fully at that giving MVs substantially above the US stuff and handloads for a modern rifle in Lapua or Norma brass can take a lot of pressure.

Not that one needs to or should ever load anything approaching hot loads for the venerable M1896 (lovely rifle), but modern rifles cry out for full-performance handloads.

 

[boltman13]

I shot Hunter Bench Rest with a tight neck 308 for years. With 135 gr custom bullets I was competitive. With only a 2.25" forestock allowed and a 10# weight limit the rifle was jumpy on the front rest. Recoil was not bad. I have rebarreled with a 6BR and I appreciate the milder recoil and less jumpy rifle. Accuracy is slightly better but the smaller bullet hole costs a point or X now and then. This is short line 100 & 200 yds but with a 1:8 twist and 105 gr bullets I can shoot 600 yds. F-Open Mid Range as well. The same rifle with a 1:14 twist barrel in 308 could shoot 150 or 155 gr bullets for mid range but keeping it in the rest might have been a problem. Now that I am approaching my 7th decade I find recoil more objectanable and my F-Open Long Range rifle is in 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Evan]

Our match is limited by our 520 yard range. We have a factory class and a modified class in our club's BR match and, just in case, we have a local rule that allows the F-Class guys heavier rifles to be legal so they can come out and play. F & M classes have run the caliber gauntlet but, presently, the 6.5 Creedmoor rules. We did have a shooter who competed in both our match and FTR come shoot with us for a couple of years and his 308 was the class of the field. He could and did take down all the 6.5 Creedmoor shooters. IMO, the 308 can stand up to any competition out to 600 yards IF the shooter is up to it. Good gun handling, reloading practices and wind reading are essential with any caliber but (again my opinion) the 308 requires you to sharpen all those skills.

That guy would be that much better with a better performing cartridge (like a 6BR or XC, for example). Clearly a case of indian and not the arrow, which is the take away. The best cartridge around doesn't fix bad wind calls, but a 308 is a handicap if everyone else is shooting something better.