F-Class equipment list

[urbanrifleman]

My biggest concern is for new shooters that think if they don't have one of these actions, they will never be able to improve or post decent scores.

Great post my friend. Thank you for taking the time to type all that up. It should be sticky'd at the top of the forum!!!

While you express what I feel is a great, reasonable attitude toward the issue, I believe there is another group that is expressing the opposite opinion, and they are very vocal and visceral about it. At least on the Internet. It doesn't matter if it is on forum posts, blogs, Facebook, or Youtube videos, there is a group of people that get downright nasty if you don't bow to their approved equipment list (especially noting these lists from these matches). They will attack your experience, knowledge, your patriotism, your faith in God!!! (sarcasm) If you don't copy the "top shooters" like they have, it is almost like their heads are going to spin off!!!

I mean if if you don't have a powder dispenser that costs $4000 don't even bother showing up!!! If you don't have a $2500 bench rest, don't even bother showing up!!! If you don't have a XXXX blah blah blah DON'T EVEN BOTHER SHOWING UP!!! It is not healthy for the sport, but for some reason some of these guys are worshipped, and their attitude trickles down. Just my observation.

The truth is that these lists are mostly the guys who got beat. And very little emphasis is given to the guys like you mentioned that don't have the most wiz bang stuff and still win. More often than not, the guy who can read the wind is going to come out on top... And that is the way I see it.

 

[urbanrifleman]

It's not the expense. I couldn't ever get the temperature sensitive crap to work as well as what I use. Matter of fact, I still have several 8 pounders of it that I've tried to sell, trade and just flat give away.

Vit powders are crap. I will call John Whidden today and let him know.

Not to mention just about every short line bench shooter in the world. I think they are unaware that the powder they are using is crap.

 

[Medic505]

So you filled out the equipment list falsely or not at all?

I filled it out, you had to. Was it correct? That I can't say. I just wanted to sign up for the match, not write a equipment list.

 

[Medic505]

Vit powders are crap. I will call John Whidden today and let him know.

Not to mention just about every short line bench shooter in the world. I think they are unaware that the powder they are using is crap.

I could care less who you call. Hey call me, I'll make you a great deal on some 140 and 150.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I could care less who you call. Hey call me, I'll make you a great deal on some 140 and 150.

Precious. Why would I do that? It's crap!!

 

[KenOath]

I filled it out, you had to. Was it correct? That I can't say. I just wanted to sign up for the match, not write a equipment list.

I think a voluntary equipment list would be less intrusive, then atleast the guys that fill it out actually want to and therefor more likely to put down there actual equipment. Each to their own..

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I cant understand the frustration with just writing down what you use? Its not like somebody couldnt just walk down the line and see what action you have. Give a new shooter a chance to have something to read about or strive to get.

 

[Medic505]

Precious. Why would I do that? It's crap!!

I agree.

 

[Jdne5b]

I cant understand the frustration with just writing down what you use? Its not like somebody couldnt just walk down the line and see what action you have. Give a new shooter a chance to have something to read about or strive to get.

The issue for this instance was.. you had to type or select from options online.. and the match was filling up rapidly. Over what.. 1000 entries in 6 hrs or so? It was a time suck.

 

[Medic505]

I cant understand the frustration with just writing down what you use? Its not like somebody couldnt just walk down the line and see what action you have. Give a new shooter a chance to have something to read about or strive to get.

Dusty,
had the questionnaire been voluntary and available after you signed up, I would have filled it out accurately and to a T. I sure have nothing to hide and I'm more than willing to talk to anyone about what I use.

 

[Bob Sebold]

I have shot first and last at Berger SW NAT's with the same equipment! What does that mean when your shit ain't wired tight? I always shoot Brux barrels, because they are good, yes, because they are close to me, yes, because they sponsor me, Yes. Are they the only barrels that shoot well, YES! No, of course not. There are plenty of good barrel makers out there. But I suggest you pick a well known maker and not somebody just starting out. Same goes for actions, or anything else. I shoot Kelby actions, Some times I woop on people, some times I get wooped. Same action. I do think a March scope can buy you some points tho.

 

[Bob Sebold]

One more thing, ask some good shooters you might know what they use and if they like it. Most shooters will not steer you wrong.

 

[perry42]

Give the top shooters a Savage with an aftermarket barrel and they would still beat 99.9% of the competition. Reading the wind, mirage, and changing light conditions are where they excel. Good equipment is nice but experience is what counts.

perry42

 

[Immike]

Give the top shooters a Savage with an aftermarket barrel and they would still beat 99.9% of the competition. Reading the wind, mirage, and changing light conditions are where they excel. Good equipment is nice but experience is what counts.

perry42

I’d love to see a match with issued equipment for this very reason! Maybe savage needs to try this idea...

 

[XTR]

Give the top shooters a Savage with an aftermarket barrel and they would still beat 99.9% of the competition. Reading the wind, mirage, and changing light conditions are where they excel. Good equipment is nice but experience is what counts.

perry42

Jim Crofts beat 100% of the competition at the FCNC... twice.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Give the top shooters a Savage with an aftermarket barrel and they would still beat 99.9% of the competition. Reading the wind, mirage, and changing light conditions are where they excel. Good equipment is nice but experience is what counts.

perry42

That guy on Youtube that I will not name, never mentioned wind reading. The inference being it really is the equipment. Being the reloading gear (powder scale, dies, some kind of press made by NASA, super case trimmer, this thing that weighs primers, etc etc), gun, rest, truck he drives to the range, and he is SPONSORED and gets most of that stuff for free, and he is on Youtube telling people that if you don't have all this stuff he got free, YOU ARE NOT COMPETITIVE.

Experienced shooters know that is total bull. You can get stomped by a guy with lesser gear that can read the wind. Reading the wind and mirage is 75% of it. The gear is 25%. Not the other way around. Yet, this idea has become the dominant philosophy on the Internet. And as many of the dominant philosophies propagated on the internet is total bull pucky propagated by people with a personal agenda.

Is this really good for the future of the sport?

 

[dcali]

The trouble with equipment lists is that they encourage the wrong mindset. If you know what you are doing, you don't need to look at what other people are doing. Knowing what you are doing is the only way to succeed - nobody ever copied their way to a win. So saying "so and so won a national championship with a BAT action, so I'm getting a BAT action" is exactly the wrong way to approach it, because actions don't matter that much, and you have no idea why so and so has a BAT. Experienced shooters know so and so would have won with a Remington action. But you only know that by digging into the whys, not the whats.

It's much better to ask "I'm new to F class - what sort of gear should I be looking at and why?" and then go learn about that gear. There's so much information on the net that it's damn near impossible to be ignorant. You don't need no stinkin' equipment list. Once you have the gear, it becomes a whole lot less interesting, because the gear isn't the point.

 

[KenOath]

The trouble with equipment lists is that they encourage the wrong mindset. If you know what you are doing, you don't need to look at what other people are doing. Knowing what you are doing is the only way to succeed - nobody ever copied their way to a win. So saying "so and so won a national championship with a BAT action, so I'm getting a BAT action" is exactly the wrong way to approach it, because actions don't matter that much, and you have no idea why so and so has a BAT. Experienced shooters know so and so would have won with a Remington action. But you only know that by digging into the whys, not the whats.

It's much better to ask "I'm new to F class - what sort of gear should I be looking at and why?" and then go learn about that gear. There's so much information on the net that it's damn near impossible to be ignorant. You don't need no stinkin' equipment list. Once you have the gear, it becomes a whole lot less interesting, because the gear isn't the point.

Some of us are just plain curious about the equipment that others are using, nothing to do with copying what the other shooters have. I have BAT and Stolle, McMillan, Nightforce, Jewell,Farley, all top end stuff, I don’t NEED there to be an equipment list most people interested enough in this sport do a heap of reasearch on what equipment to buy...some of us are just curious about what others use, simple as that!!

 

[urbanrifleman]

nobody ever copied their way to a win. So saying "so and so won a national championship with a BAT action, so I'm getting a BAT action" is exactly the wrong way to approach

Says nobody ever around here... Quite the opposite. To NOT copy is considered heresy, and you will be pelted with cries of "he's a witch, he's witch!!! Burn him!!!" Or you will be told you are unworthy of having any opinion at all, since you haven't won this or that... An unwashed pagan that should submit to the formula or be consumed by the fires...

 

[ryanjay11]

As a match director that collects and compiles information from a voluntary equipment list, I will share my thoughts. It is a giant pain in the ass, and I'm not sure it provides any benefit to anyone.

Unless you were to show how shooters using each individual component placed, their classification, extreme spread, velocity, and 100 other variables, you are only seeing trends of what people are buying. It is a completely manual process, and I guarantee you'd never find a volunteer to put it together if they had any idea of how long it takes.

Personally, I find it fun to determine what components I'd use for my next build, but I'm not going to switch action choices if someone wins the next match with a Mauser. As a overly broad brush statement, I think we put way too much stock in brands/models and not enough in practice/experience.