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6.5 Creedmoor, small vs large primers

FWIW:

WRT accuracy (not case longevity) read Lane Pearce's article in the May 2018 of Shooting Times. The Creedmoor has twice the design powder capacity for SRP. In cool temperatures, and (especially, but not exclusively) double-base powders were singled out as problematic by three different respected industry reps. And Lane's test data themselves did not suggest a significant correlation between primer size and accuracy in 6.5 Creedmoor.

It seems to me that if you need a smaller primer pocket to stand up to your case pressure, you might be pushing the case too hard.
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Last edited:
FWIW:

WRT It seems to me that if you need a smaller primer pocket to stand up to your case pressure, you might be pushing the case too hard.
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That's the worry I have with the SRP Creedmoor brass Brian. Some of the loads and claimed velocities from 6.5X47L have long frightened me, and the Creedmoor is set to go the same way I'm sure. With the excitement over and interest in this cartridge, it may also suck in a lot of new or inexperienced handloaders who may not realise the pressure levels they're playing with if they listen to Joe or Fred at the rifle club rather than look at published data.

I've no experience with the SRP version, some with the LRP, but a great deal with 308 Win 'Palma'. I'm intrigued as to what effect the SR primer and small flash-hole will have on pressures and velocities in this slightly smaller cartridge with ~5gn less powder. My original findings with SRP v LRP in 308 Lapua brass (virtually same water capacity in the lots I have) were as per the US Palma Teams' original test findings - with Hodgdon / ADI powders you needed around 0.5, 0.6gn added to the LRP charge to restore velocities.

However, as part of an SRP primer side by side test series in this brass, I put a load together of the 167gn Lapua Scenar and Viht N150 and in this instance found that there was ~ a 1.4gn discrepancy between them which rather shook me. This takes me onto another concern I have with SRP brass and Joe's verbally communicated on-the-range loads data for the unwary - take a 'hot' SRP load and transfer it straight into LRP brass and it could easily see a blown primer or worse job straight off. As it is, now that more companies are making both LRP and SRP brass variants, I'll bet that there will be confusion in the gunshop and on getting the shiny new cases home! (B*gg*r! Why won't my primers go into the pockets on my new Peterson 243 brass? Or ... Why does the decap pin keep sticking in these cases?) I bought some 260 Rem Peterson a couple of weeks back (just arrived here in this calibre here) but as my FN SPR action / bolt crater / blank SR primers at really low charge levels, it had to be the standard LRP type. The shop assistant was 'dubious' about this SRP business when I checked - I had to assure him that yes, you can get two versions now from, Peterson.
 
Reply from PETERSON (impressive...less than 12 hours and yesterday was Sunday!


raw
All of our small primer brass has the flash hole size of 0.060”
Peterson Cartridge Company

www.petersoncartridge.com

Office: (724) 940-7552 Ext. 205

Cell: (724) 256-1054
 
I see lots of discussion about SRP vs LRP but I haven't seen very much discussion on small vs large flash hole. Has anyone done testing on small flash hole & SRP vs large flash hole & SRP?
 
I see lots of discussion about SRP vs LRP but I haven't seen very much discussion on small vs large flash hole. Has anyone done testing on small flash hole & SRP vs large flash hole & SRP?

Years back when PPCs and 6BR were the only semi-common small FH types around, people played around with this and wrote the tests up in Precision Shooter magazine and suchlike. The consensus is that they shouldn't be reamed out (in the PPC and BR / Dasher etc at any rate) other than a small amount. I've seen the figure of 0.070" mentioned. Get near that, and certainly if you exceed it, and precision drops while MV ES and SD increase.

An early production small FH case was Remington's 1960s era 308 Win UBBR (unformed basic BR) brass. It was very thin-walled and had the small primer / flash-hole set-up we now associate with the BRs, 6.5X47L etc. It was sold with the intention of being reformed by the user into the appropriate calibre BR with sets of forming dies made by Fred Huntington's RCBS and others. (Remington didn't manufacture any BR cases for many years, the 7mm version being AFAIK the only one to be made in any quantity / for period of time, and that was some years after the BR cartridges' introduction.) However, back in 1960s or 70s whenever, various Palma and other shooters thought they'd try this special brass in its out of the box 308 Win form, logical in that 308 was the competition cartridge of the era. They ran into all sorts of problems, primarily ignition even in apparently good and not too cold conditions. In the end, some users reamed the flash-holes out to the standard 0.079" as they said this was the only way they could make the things perform reliably.

As a result, a generation of very experienced and knowledgeable US shooters wrote the SRP / small FH form off as impractical in anything bigger than 'improved' 6BRs or similar. When Dan Simpson of the US Palma Teams' announced back in 2010 (I think) on the Palma Teams' long-Range Forum that team members and officials had done a year's testing in conjunction with Lapua and that the US Palma Team would use the brass in its ammo the following year in international competition, those with such experience turned up on the forum and predicted disaster. However, it seems something had changed between say 1970 and 2010 in the primers or powders as on the whole the 308 form works fine with single-based extruded propellants in charges up to 50/51gn even.

BUT ... in the UK where we shoot competitions through the (usually) mild winters, there is a hint that some powders see degraded performance in Palma brass when you get down to around the freezing mark or a degree or two above. Use of some slow burning powders would make any such problems worse, likewise some ball types which are usually harder to ignite. The only time I've ever had a really noticeable problem was trying Hodgdon CFE223 in 308 Palma - in 50 rounds, two failed to ignite completely and the other 48 suffered very slight hangfires - slight but more than enough to give very poor results and large ES values. (... and yet, the elderly Hodgdon H414 grade had performed brilliantly for me in winter tests at 3-deg C previously, another ball type and from the same manufacturer - General Dynamics Corp., St. Marks Powder Co., FLA.)

The 6.5X47L is an all year round all-weather all-role cartridge for many UK users, although when I say all-weather we wouldn't expect to get anywhere near the temperature lows of many parts of North America in cold winter spells. That's with 38-42gn charges and the Creedmoor isn't greatly above those. So, I wouldn't expect any problems in reasonable temperatures and with most powders with SRP Creedmoor ammunition, likewise 260 Rem and 243 Win. I'd still hesitate to recommend their use to a Scottish Highlands deerstalker though for winter conditions.

FWIW, there are a few non-precision cartridges where you can find both SR and LRP brass, but they all use the larger 0.079" FH size irrespective of primer type. 7.62X39mm (some Remington was SRP) and 6.8mm Rem SPC (where Remington is LRP and Hornady is SRP as is some long gone SSA stuff). I tried mighty hard to find any difference between results in Hornady and Remington SPC brass and there just wasn't any with any powder I tried. I had expected higher MVs from LRP with a bit of additional primer energy even if it didn't change the powder burn characteristics, but they were really close. Same with ES values. Go figure! What is a definite issue with the small-dia. case-head SPC design though is that SRP form improves case-life. In this narrow case, the LR pocket must seriously weaken the case-head and Remington had to row back on its early specifications and loads with a big MV reduction after a year in production IIRC, albeit there were other factors involved with this particular design in its early days that increased pressures too much.

The one conclusion seems to be that the small 0.059" FH is an essential part of the mix that puts some cartridges into a league of their own for precision. Now that Peterson Cartridge Co. is making 243 Win and 260 Rem in both varieties, I'm waiting with bated breath (alright, waiting !! :) ) for reports that show how much of a difference, if any, it makes to a more 'normal' common or garden variety.

I have a little relevant experience here. I run prepped Winchester LRP, necked-down prepped LRP 308 Norma, and necked-down 308 Lapua Palma SRP brass in my mid-range 7mm-08 F-Class rifle. I can't say I see any improvement from the SRP loads although it's not a straightforward like for like comparison using different bullet and powder combinations with the two primer types, but I expect the reformed SRP 308 cases to last for nearly forever with regular annealing in what will be a 59,000-60,000 psi load. All three lots perform very well, I'm glad to say.
 
Reply from PETERSON (impressive...less than 12 hours and yesterday was Sunday!


raw
All of our small primer brass has the flash hole size of 0.060”
Peterson Cartridge Company

www.petersoncartridge.com

Office: (724) 940-7552 Ext. 205

Cell: (724) 256-1054

Yes very! Thank you for passing it on - I'd assumed this was the case, but was briefly wondering about it.
 
It seems to me that if you need a smaller primer pocket to stand up to your case pressure, you might be pushing the case too hard.
-

there are other considerations. I switched to the Peterson .260 Rem SRP case to reduce my primer inventory. I still have 2 or 3 thousand LRP's and some LRP cases set aside but most of my primer shelf is taken up with various flavors of SRP's. Since the other 2 cartridges I shoot are normally SRP cases it simplifies things as far as primer inventory. I have played with a couple of loads now and found that primer brand does make a difference in velocity ES and grouping loads using SRP's in two of my "pet loads". However I can get close to or the same results experimenting with various flavors of LRP's.
 
Some powders normally shot with a large rifle primer do not do so well with a small rifle primer, that is when a Tula rifle primer may help save the day.
 
So what I'm gleaning so far is that there is no obvious significant improvement in accuracy from SRP, but there may be significantly longer case life with high pressure loads. Also that certain powders at low temperatures may have ignition problems with SRP.
-
 
Years back when PPCs and 6BR were the only semi-common small FH types around, people played around with this and wrote the tests up in Precision Shooter magazine and suchlike. The consensus is that they shouldn't be reamed out (in the PPC and BR / Dasher etc at any rate) other than a small amount. I've seen the figure of 0.070" mentioned. Get near that, and certainly if you exceed it, and precision drops while MV ES and SD increase.

An early production small FH case was Remington's 1960s era 308 Win UBBR (unformed basic BR) brass. It was very thin-walled and had the small primer / flash-hole set-up we now associate with the BRs, 6.5X47L etc. It was sold with the intention of being reformed by the user into the appropriate calibre BR with sets of forming dies made by Fred Huntington's RCBS and others. (Remington didn't manufacture any BR cases for many years, the 7mm version being AFAIK the only one to be made in any quantity / for period of time, and that was some years after the BR cartridges' introduction.) However, back in 1960s or 70s whenever, various Palma and other shooters thought they'd try this special brass in its out of the box 308 Win form, logical in that 308 was the competition cartridge of the era. They ran into all sorts of problems, primarily ignition even in apparently good and not too cold conditions. In the end, some users reamed the flash-holes out to the standard 0.079" as they said this was the only way they could make the things perform reliably.

As a result, a generation of very experienced and knowledgeable US shooters wrote the SRP / small FH form off as impractical in anything bigger than 'improved' 6BRs or similar. When Dan Simpson of the US Palma Teams' announced back in 2010 (I think) on the Palma Teams' long-Range Forum that team members and officials had done a year's testing in conjunction with Lapua and that the US Palma Team would use the brass in its ammo the following year in international competition, those with such experience turned up on the forum and predicted disaster. However, it seems something had changed between say 1970 and 2010 in the primers or powders as on the whole the 308 form works fine with single-based extruded propellants in charges up to 50/51gn even.

BUT ... in the UK where we shoot competitions through the (usually) mild winters, there is a hint that some powders see degraded performance in Palma brass when you get down to around the freezing mark or a degree or two above. Use of some slow burning powders would make any such problems worse, likewise some ball types which are usually harder to ignite. The only time I've ever had a really noticeable problem was trying Hodgdon CFE223 in 308 Palma - in 50 rounds, two failed to ignite completely and the other 48 suffered very slight hangfires - slight but more than enough to give very poor results and large ES values. (... and yet, the elderly Hodgdon H414 grade had performed brilliantly for me in winter tests at 3-deg C previously, another ball type and from the same manufacturer - General Dynamics Corp., St. Marks Powder Co., FLA.)

The 6.5X47L is an all year round all-weather all-role cartridge for many UK users, although when I say all-weather we wouldn't expect to get anywhere near the temperature lows of many parts of North America in cold winter spells. That's with 38-42gn charges and the Creedmoor isn't greatly above those. So, I wouldn't expect any problems in reasonable temperatures and with most powders with SRP Creedmoor ammunition, likewise 260 Rem and 243 Win. I'd still hesitate to recommend their use to a Scottish Highlands deerstalker though for winter conditions.

FWIW, there are a few non-precision cartridges where you can find both SR and LRP brass, but they all use the larger 0.079" FH size irrespective of primer type. 7.62X39mm (some Remington was SRP) and 6.8mm Rem SPC (where Remington is LRP and Hornady is SRP as is some long gone SSA stuff). I tried mighty hard to find any difference between results in Hornady and Remington SPC brass and there just wasn't any with any powder I tried. I had expected higher MVs from LRP with a bit of additional primer energy even if it didn't change the powder burn characteristics, but they were really close. Same with ES values. Go figure! What is a definite issue with the small-dia. case-head SPC design though is that SRP form improves case-life. In this narrow case, the LR pocket must seriously weaken the case-head and Remington had to row back on its early specifications and loads with a big MV reduction after a year in production IIRC, albeit there were other factors involved with this particular design in its early days that increased pressures too much.

The one conclusion seems to be that the small 0.059" FH is an essential part of the mix that puts some cartridges into a league of their own for precision. Now that Peterson Cartridge Co. is making 243 Win and 260 Rem in both varieties, I'm waiting with bated breath (alright, waiting !! :) ) for reports that show how much of a difference, if any, it makes to a more 'normal' common or garden variety.

I have a little relevant experience here. I run prepped Winchester LRP, necked-down prepped LRP 308 Norma, and necked-down 308 Lapua Palma SRP brass in my mid-range 7mm-08 F-Class rifle. I can't say I see any improvement from the SRP loads although it's not a straightforward like for like comparison using different bullet and powder combinations with the two primer types, but I expect the reformed SRP 308 cases to last for nearly forever with regular annealing in what will be a 59,000-60,000 psi load. All three lots perform very well, I'm glad to say.
 
Laurie,

I've read somewhere that David Tubb cited a study that concluded that cartridges above 35 grains of powder should not use small primer pocket brass.

Danny
 
Yes Danny. I believe he looked at the two forms for the 6XC and opted for LRP for a cartridge of that size. There's no doubt that the Remington UBBR brass didn't work at all well in 308 back when it was in production ......... and yet, we now know it does, and 6.5X47 Lapua very well too.

I don't know what, but something has obviously changed over last 40 or 50 years. Maybe powder technology improvements mean that today's coatings don't inhibit ignition as much as in the past. I'm very relaxed with my 7mm-08 SRP loads - 49 point something grains N160 and I did get up as high as 51.5gn N165 with 175gn bullets and no ignition issues at all, excellent SDs - just the charges were so compressed the COALs were all over the place even with this being a very long freebore chamber that sees almost 3-inch COALs!

However we're talking target shooting. Hunting - in chilly climates anyway - is another matter and I'd want 100% reliable ignition and as much of a guarantee as possible that in cold weather MVs aren't going to drop so much that you hit a foot low or something equally bad. (I always remember an article on primers and ignition by one of America's top gun writers, only now I can't remember who he is :oops:. He had a 44 Magnum revolver in his youth and invariably used H110 plus a standard large pistol primer because they were always available locally and cheap despite a magnum type being strongly recommended by Hodgdon with this powder. This worked great until one one very cold day when in his job on a ranch he'd been out on horseback all day in way below freezing temperatures with the gun in a belt holster. When he got back to the ranch there was a near starving coyote in the yard stalking some sheep in a pen. So he draws the revolver, steadies it on a fence post and takes a shot he'd be confident of an easy hit with - and you guess it - misses! So after the animal has lit out for the next county, he tests his loads and finds the velocities are so low the bullets are hitting the ground 40 or 50 yards ahead of the muzzle. When the weather gets warmer, or he takes the revolver straight out of a warm house, performance is restored.
 
Years back when PPCs and 6BR were the only semi-common small FH types around, people played around with this and wrote the tests up in Precision Shooter magazine and suchlike. The consensus is that they shouldn't be reamed out (in the PPC and BR / Dasher etc at any rate) other than a small amount. I've seen the figure of 0.070" mentioned. Get near that, and certainly if you exceed it, and precision drops while MV ES and SD increase.

An early production small FH case was Remington's 1960s era 308 Win UBBR (unformed basic BR) brass. It was very thin-walled and had the small primer / flash-hole set-up we now associate with the BRs, 6.5X47L etc. It was sold with the intention of being reformed by the user into the appropriate calibre BR with sets of forming dies made by Fred Huntington's RCBS and others. (Remington didn't manufacture any BR cases for many years, the 7mm version being AFAIK the only one to be made in any quantity / for period of time, and that was some years after the BR cartridges' introduction.) However, back in 1960s or 70s whenever, various Palma and other shooters thought they'd try this special brass in its out of the box 308 Win form, logical in that 308 was the competition cartridge of the era. They ran into all sorts of problems, primarily ignition even in apparently good and not too cold conditions. In the end, some users reamed the flash-holes out to the standard 0.079" as they said this was the only way they could make the things perform reliably.

As a result, a generation of very experienced and knowledgeable US shooters wrote the SRP / small FH form off as impractical in anything bigger than 'improved' 6BRs or similar. When Dan Simpson of the US Palma Teams' announced back in 2010 (I think) on the Palma Teams' long-Range Forum that team members and officials had done a year's testing in conjunction with Lapua and that the US Palma Team would use the brass in its ammo the following year in international competition, those with such experience turned up on the forum and predicted disaster. However, it seems something had changed between say 1970 and 2010 in the primers or powders as on the whole the 308 form works fine with single-based extruded propellants in charges up to 50/51gn even.

BUT ... in the UK where we shoot competitions through the (usually) mild winters, there is a hint that some powders see degraded performance in Palma brass when you get down to around the freezing mark or a degree or two above. Use of some slow burning powders would make any such problems worse, likewise some ball types which are usually harder to ignite. The only time I've ever had a really noticeable problem was trying Hodgdon CFE223 in 308 Palma - in 50 rounds, two failed to ignite completely and the other 48 suffered very slight hangfires - slight but more than enough to give very poor results and large ES values. (... and yet, the elderly Hodgdon H414 grade had performed brilliantly for me in winter tests at 3-deg C previously, another ball type and from the same manufacturer - General Dynamics Corp., St. Marks Powder Co., FLA.)

The 6.5X47L is an all year round all-weather all-role cartridge for many UK users, although when I say all-weather we wouldn't expect to get anywhere near the temperature lows of many parts of North America in cold winter spells. That's with 38-42gn charges and the Creedmoor isn't greatly above those. So, I wouldn't expect any problems in reasonable temperatures and with most powders with SRP Creedmoor ammunition, likewise 260 Rem and 243 Win. I'd still hesitate to recommend their use to a Scottish Highlands deerstalker though for winter conditions.

FWIW, there are a few non-precision cartridges where you can find both SR and LRP brass, but they all use the larger 0.079" FH size irrespective of primer type. 7.62X39mm (some Remington was SRP) and 6.8mm Rem SPC (where Remington is LRP and Hornady is SRP as is some long gone SSA stuff). I tried mighty hard to find any difference between results in Hornady and Remington SPC brass and there just wasn't any with any powder I tried. I had expected higher MVs from LRP with a bit of additional primer energy even if it didn't change the powder burn characteristics, but they were really close. Same with ES values. Go figure! What is a definite issue with the small-dia. case-head SPC design though is that SRP form improves case-life. In this narrow case, the LR pocket must seriously weaken the case-head and Remington had to row back on its early specifications and loads with a big MV reduction after a year in production IIRC, albeit there were other factors involved with this particular design in its early days that increased pressures too much.

The one conclusion seems to be that the small 0.059" FH is an essential part of the mix that puts some cartridges into a league of their own for precision. Now that Peterson Cartridge Co. is making 243 Win and 260 Rem in both varieties, I'm waiting with bated breath (alright, waiting !! :) ) for reports that show how much of a difference, if any, it makes to a more 'normal' common or garden variety.

I have a little relevant experience here. I run prepped Winchester LRP, necked-down prepped LRP 308 Norma, and necked-down 308 Lapua Palma SRP brass in my mid-range 7mm-08 F-Class rifle. I can't say I see any improvement from the SRP loads although it's not a straightforward like for like comparison using different bullet and powder combinations with the two primer types, but I expect the reformed SRP 308 cases to last for nearly forever with regular annealing in what will be a 59,000-60,000 psi load. All three lots perform very well, I'm glad to say.

Thank you for a very detailed reply. I appreciate the time it takes to type such a reply.

While Peterson and Alpha are both making SRP & LRP creedmoor brass, I'm under the impression that both versions are using a large flash hole with Lapua producing the only creedmoor bass with SRP & small flash hole.

Pure speculation on my behalf, but I think the flash hole size that has the greater effect on ignition consistency. I would expect the primer gas to have a higher exit velocity and longer duration with a small flash hole compared to a large flash hole. It would be interesting to do some testing of all 4 combinations: SRP & SFH, SRP & LFH, LRP & SFH, LRP & LFH. Wish I had the time....
 
While Peterson and Alpha are both making SRP & LRP creedmoor brass, I'm under the impression that both versions are using a large flash hole with Lapua producing the only creedmoor bass with SRP & small flash hole.

If you go back up the thread Peter, M-61 wrote:


Reply from PETERSON (impressive...less than 12 hours and yesterday was Sunday!


raw
All of our small primer brass has the flash hole size of 0.060”

Peterson Cartridge Company

So, this company anyway is using the 1.5mm FH size.

The more I look at this subject and read others' experiences, the more I feel like Donald Rumsfeld with his famous Gulf War known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns, in the third category most probably! :) Whenever I think I understand primer effects, an exception to the rule turns up.

The one thing I have definitely decided on is that primer make and model, maybe sometimes production lot too, sometimes have a really big effect on performance. Here's a quote from an email I received from Vince Bottomley, the UK gun writer and one of our top BR and all-round competitors. We've just acquired a Silver Mountain electronic target in our club and so there is a great new opportunity to do meaningful 600 yard load testing easily.

I also took along my tactical rig in 6.5x47. I use this gun mainly for McQueen but wanted to shoot the 2 day tactical which is coming up so a good opportunity for a 600 yd zero.

I was also testing two different loads - well, the same load but two different primers. If you remember, you gave me a load of new 6.5x47 Lapua cases with ‘brass’ primers - presumably Remington. These cases will come in handy as I need about 120 rounds for the tactical comp. Normally, I use Federal primers so I was interested to see if ‘your’ Remington primers had any effect on accuracy.

After a few shots to get on and foul the barrel, I fired one group of five with each primer.

I was shocked to see that the Remmy primer's group (half MOA) was half the size of my Fed primer group!


They were in fact Remington 7 1/2 BRs, a primer we used to be able to get at a great price here and long one of my favourite models in small to medium SRP cartridges. (I used them in 6BR and 6.5X47L for a barrel's life of each, and now use them in my reformed 308 Palma to 7mm-08 F-Class rounds.) Over some years, I always found them very consistent too between 5K 'bricks'. So .... primers really DO matter, but as to rules on what?, where?, when? and how? My only rule these days is that when you find something that works go out and buy lots of them quick while it is still the same manufacturing lot.
 
So what I'm gleaning so far is that there is no obvious significant improvement in accuracy from SRP, but there may be significantly longer case life with high pressure loads. Also that certain powders at low temperatures may have ignition problems with SRP.
-
Basically what I am gathering too. It was acknowledged by many published experts that the 6.5x47 has a slight accuracy edge over the Creedmoor and back then everyone said it was because the 47 had a SRP and high quality brass, but now that we have SRP Creedmoor and it has not helped in accuracy can we then logically deduce that the 47 is more accurate? The designers of the PPC said that a SRP can only reliably detonate a 1.5in long column of powder. The Creedmoor has a 1.6in. Tipping point it must be. Based on what I am reading here 1.6in is to long.
 
Thank you for a very detailed reply. I appreciate the time it takes to type such a reply.

While Peterson and Alpha are both making SRP & LRP creedmoor brass, I'm under the impression that both versions are using a large flash hole with Lapua producing the only creedmoor bass with SRP & small flash hole.

Pure speculation on my behalf, but I think the flash hole size that has the greater effect on ignition consistency. I would expect the primer gas to have a higher exit velocity and longer duration with a small flash hole compared to a large flash hole. It would be interesting to do some testing of all 4 combinations: SRP & SFH, SRP & LFH, LRP & SFH, LRP & LFH. Wish I had the time....
Peterson SRP Creedmoor has a .060 flash hole. Same as Lapuas.
 
So why does almost every serious Palma, Fullbore and FTR long-range competitor across a load of continents use 308 Win (2.015" long) Lapua 'Palma' brass?
Your using much faster powder. Also Palma is shot almost exclusively in hot weather. Lapua does warn its customers never to use Palma brass for hunting as it can cause hang fires. In one of Brian Litz books he demonstrates with a 308W that slower powders with not enough primer detonation increased SD measurably.
 
I made the mistake by listening to a employee at a very popular reloading store once . He said that Lee universal decapper would fit lapua small rifle primer holes without filing . I deprimed 50 of my 100 lapua 6.5creedmoor with it unfiled and punched the holes mistakenly . It was my first lapua sm primer hole purchase and thought the primers being tight was why it was more force to remove them . Anyways I realized what I did and shot them anyways . I saw no difference in accuracy or magnetospeedV3 numbers . I filed down my depriming rod to the correct diameter to do the other 50 . Still zero difference . Actually the punched holes were a hair faster , but still had single digit ES/SD . So that's proof that all the anal primer hole rituals are placebo effect .
 

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