I bought a borescope. Probably not a good idea.…

[McHaggis]

Lost my borescope virginity today. Up my new barrel guys! What I saw has me stressing. I expected to see nice defined rifling and a smooth bore in between. What I saw was line, marks, pits and scores. I also expected to see a nice defined start to the lands and that was the case with 3 of them. The other ones looked like the leade was smeared off and there was no defined start to them. There also looks like some sort of galling in the chamber area like a metal buildup in a few places. Nothing is smooth like I expected.
BUT am I getting over excited for nothing? As I said I’ve never scoped a bore before so maybe what in seeing is normal? I realise that the Lyman borescope has magnified the bore many times so anything I’m seeing is actuall very small. This is a new, never fired, Howa HCR in 6.5CM with a 26” barrel.

 

[Dans40X]

Imagine what you would see with an instrument that resembles a Gradient Lens BoreScope!!

How does the rifle shoot?

IF,you can call/out shoot the rifle,spin the barrel off & use it for a tent stake and replace the barrel with something of quality.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Sounds like you got one of the better ones

 

[ireload2]

Take a look under your finger nails with about 7X to 10X magnification. Then you will not stress about your barrel so much.

Try to find a high quality barrel that was lapped during manufacture. You will be pleasantly surprised. I have like new Mauser barrels that are over 100 years old with a much better finish than nearly all standard factory rifles have today.

 

[McHaggis]

Imagine what you would see with an instrument that resembles a Gradient Lens BoreScope!!

How does the rifle shoot?

IF,you can call/out shoot the rifle,spin the barrel off & use it for a tent stake and replace the barrel with something of quality.

I have yet to shoot it. If it’s a dud I could weld a handle on it and use it as a walking stick I guess.

 

[McHaggis]

Sounds like you got one of the better ones

Really? That may actually give me some hope then. Most reviews say they shoot well.
Time will tell. I’d hate to see a rough one then.

 

[McHaggis]

Take a look under your finger nails with about 7X to 10X magnification. Then you will not stress about your barrel so much.

Try to find a high quality barrel that was lapped during manufacture. You will be pleasantly surprised. I have like new Mauser barrels that are over 100 years old with a much better finish than nearly all standard factory rifles have today.

You’d think with today’s technology and tooling etc the factory barrels would be pretty good. I don’t understand how they can do such rubbish machining and let them out the factory door. Clearly they must shoot well and I guess they don’t expect anyone to look too closely.

 

[ireload2]

The functional criteria is useable accuracy for maybe 500 rounds.
Most rifles never get fired more than a few boxes.
Finish of the bore is not something that many consumers ever notice or comprehend as important. Current factory technology is used to make barrels as cheaply as possible not make them as good as possible.
I have Browning BPCR rifles with lapped barrels that were made by Badger. They are virtually free of tool marks. I have standard Browning rifles with standard barrels that are a maze of tool marks. Both shoot well but the Badger barrel shots better.

You’d think with today’s technology and tooling etc the factory barrels would be pretty good. I don’t understand how they can do such rubbish machining and let them out the factory door. Clearly they must shoot well and I guess they don’t expect anyone to look too closely.

 

[msinc]

It sounds like {you don't come right out and say it} that you are looking at some factory barrel that is on a new rifle you recently acquired. Some factory bores look pretty good. There was a time when Savage barrels had an appearance that could rival some of the best custom aftermarket pipes.
Many factory barrels look just like what you are describing...many are way worse.
I have owned a Hawkeye for many years and have scoped hundreds of barrels. The bottom line is that any given bores appearance seems to have little to do with, or cannot really be used as an indicator of accuracy or how well it shoots. I have scoped bores that were atrocious and yet they still managed to shoot to the point that I would not consider changing the barrel. On the other hand, I have scoped bores that were absolutely flawless in appearance. Hand lapped perfection that screamed of being my next "great shooter" only to have it turn out to be way less than stellar on the target.
One other thing I have learned from scoping a lot of bores is that what appears to be a rough bore may not hardly copper foul at all, while a very pretty "perfect" looking bore might foul terrible.
All this sounds like a borescope is not quite the valuable purchase we all hope it will be, but that is definitely not the case. I have identified many poorly chambered barrels that only needed to be set back and re-chambered. I have found many scorched throats that explained the loss of accuracy. It will very quickly tell you if the crown is any good. I have for certain identified quickly which bore cleaners are worth buying {two of them} and which ones are an absolute joke {all of the rest}.
Bottom line, enjoy the scope and the whole new world it can open to you, but always shoot the rifle before you call the barrel no good. I have an old 1903 Springfield that has a bore like Swiss cheese from pitting. Any reasonable person would not think of bothering to shoot it for a second, yet it will shoot MOA with open sights @ 100 yards and my eyes are not what they used to be.

 

[biggen0_8]

I learned two things with my borescope.

1. What I thought was a clean bore, was not

2. That I can't tell you if a barrel will shoot good, but I might be able to tell you why a barrel won't shoot good.

 

[swadiver]

It sounds like {you don't come right out and say it} that you are looking at some factory barrel that is on a new rifle you recently acquired. Some factory bores look pretty good. There was a time when Savage barrels had an appearance that could rival some of the best custom aftermarket pipes.
Many factory barrels look just like what you are describing...many are way worse.
I have owned a Hawkeye for many years and have scoped hundreds of barrels. The bottom line is that any given bores appearance seems to have little to do with, or cannot really be used as an indicator of accuracy or how well it shoots. I have scoped bored that were atrocious and yet they still managed to shoot to the point that I would not consider changing the barrel. On the other hand, I have scoped bores that were absolutely flawless in appearance. Hand lapped perfection that screamed of being my next "great shooter" only to have it turn out to be way less than stellar on the target.
One other thing I have learned from scoping a lot of bores is that what appears to be a rough bore may not hardly copper foul at all, while a very pretty "perfect" looking bore might foul terrible.
All this sounds like a borescope is not quite the valuable purchase we all hope it will be, but that is definitely not the case. I have identified many poorly chambered barrels that only needed to be set back and re-chambered. I have found many scorched throats that explained the loss of accuracy. It will very quickly tell you if the crown is any good. I have for certain identified quickly which bore cleaners are worth buying {two of them} and which ones are an absolute joke {all of the rest}.
Bottom line, enjoy the scope and the whole new world it can open to you, but always shoot the rifle before you call the barrel no good. I have an old 1903 Springfield that has a bore like Swiss cheese form pitting. Any reasonable person would not think of bothering to shoot it for a second, yet it will shoot MOA with open sights @ 100 yards and my eyes are not what they used to be.

which are the two bore cleaners worth buying?

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Shoot it till it stops shooting, use the BS to make sure you get all the carbon out when you clean and have a beer

 

[Howland]

which are the two bore cleaners worth buying?

... and why?

 

[hogpatrol]

I have yet to shoot it. If it’s a dud I could weld a handle on it and use it as a walking stick I guess.

With a factory rifle, best to just use your borescope to check your cleaning process.

 

[Toolbreaker]

The Lyman can save pictures, correct? Since this is a new factory rifle, I'd clean the bore well, then use the scope to take & save pictures of the chamber, throat, and a couple places down the bore. Use those pictures as benchmarks to monitor your cleaning process as you put rounds through it.

 

[bsekf]

ditto........ bore scope won't tell you a barrel will shoot, but it might indicate why it doesn't shoot.

Bill

 

[msinc]

which are the two bore cleaners worth buying?

... and why?

First, understand that we are talking copper here. I mean, you can scrub powder fouling out of a bore with Formula 409 and a brush, copper is the problem. JB Bore cleaner is one and Shooters Choice MC-7 is the other. Iosso is another that will work so says some friends that use it and also own a borescope, but I have no personal experience with it.
As to why...when you have a bore full of copper JB will absolutely, positively take it out quick. I have found nothing {except maybe Iosso} that will do this and I have tried them all. JB is the one bore cleaner that you can say, "I am going to remove this copper right now" and do just that in a matter of minutes.
The other, Shooters Choice does exactly what it says it will do, which is something I just have not found with any of the others. It's not fast, in fact you might have to slop up the bore with it and let it soak over night if you don't have JB, but it will harmlessly remove every molecule of copper eventually.
Sweets 7.62 will remove copper, but I have found that it is a little dangerous to use. If you exceed the time they say to leave it in contact with the bore you will get fine pits where it has etched into the metal. I have seen this with two different bores and yes, I did it and yes, I exceeded the time because there was still copper in the bore.
The others either accomplished absolutely zero or took so long to do anything that they were dismissed as useless. This is my findings, I am not going to lie to anyone and no doubt some fanboys are now going to bawl about me saying their favorite bore cleaner is no good, but this is what I have found to be true.
It's funny, when some shooter is blowing off about how great his bore cleaner works.....I ask "what kind of borescope do you have" or "when did you get a borescope".....the conversation is usually over right there.
Without a borescope you are guessing, period, end of story.

 

[Drop Port]

Friends don't let friends look down factory bores. As stated they are great for cleaning or "possibly" troubleshooting a problem, other than that they can traumatize you. Nothing like looking down a factory tube that shoots decent, only to find out its missing a section of one land.

 

[MGYSGT]

Don't distress. My barrel is from a so called big time maker with lots of wins. I also just got a bore-scope yesterday. After I finally got it clean (who knew), I got a good look at the inside. Mind you, I paid $345 for a blank and then had it reamed for $250. I was not a happy camper. There are places in the grooves with divits. I would have called them craters, but , Oh what the heck, they were craters. I will be looking at all new barrels prior to having them chambered. It shoots ok, but never shot good. I have had less expensive barrels shoot much better.

 

[muleman69]

It sounds like {you don't come right out and say it} that you are looking at some factory barrel that is on a new rifle you recently acquired. Some factory bores look pretty good. There was a time when Savage barrels had an appearance that could rival some of the best custom aftermarket pipes.
Many factory barrels look just like what you are describing...many are way worse.
I have owned a Hawkeye for many years and have scoped hundreds of barrels. The bottom line is that any given bores appearance seems to have little to do with, or cannot really be used as an indicator of accuracy or how well it shoots. I have scoped bores that were atrocious and yet they still managed to shoot to the point that I would not consider changing the barrel. On the other hand, I have scoped bores that were absolutely flawless in appearance. Hand lapped perfection that screamed of being my next "great shooter" only to have it turn out to be way less than stellar on the target.
One other thing I have learned from scoping a lot of bores is that what appears to be a rough bore may not hardly copper foul at all, while a very pretty "perfect" looking bore might foul terrible.
All this sounds like a borescope is not quite the valuable purchase we all hope it will be, but that is definitely not the case. I have identified many poorly chambered barrels that only needed to be set back and re-chambered. I have found many scorched throats that explained the loss of accuracy. It will very quickly tell you if the crown is any good. I have for certain identified quickly which bore cleaners are worth buying {two of them} and which ones are an absolute joke {all of the rest}.
Bottom line, enjoy the scope and the whole new world it can open to you, but always shoot the rifle before you call the barrel no good. I have an old 1903 Springfield that has a bore like Swiss cheese from pitting. Any reasonable person would not think of bothering to shoot it for a second, yet it will shoot MOA with open sights @ 100 yards and my eyes are not what they used to be.

Quite interesting article,one thing I have not picked up yet is a bore scope. May I ask what bore cleaners you prefer and bore scopes?