Vihtavuori N140
- Thread starter Tony1320
- Start date
Not very....
I’ve used it for 6HAGAR in a spacegun & for Palma loads. It can be peaky in our summer temps here when it gets near 85F. For Palma loads N-150’s a more prudent choice April - Sept.
Good question!
In terms of batch to batch consistency I think N-150 wins hands down.
Where stability across a wide temperature range gets your attention, I don’t have an opinion as I haven’t used them both enough under different temp conditions to base any judgement on. Others may be able to better illuminate this area.
I'm running test right now with N140 and the 200.20x bullets. Only problem is I live in Nebraska and it has only got up to about 48 degrees so far.
As for the loading, I am finding it more consistent than Varget on the targets. About half the vertical.
From 15 degrees to 48, it ran about 15-20fps faster. So the published .4 fps per degree rise is fairly accurate for right now.
My batch is a little slower than my batch of Varget by around 20-25fps.
As for the loading, I am finding it more consistent than Varget on the targets. About half the vertical.
From 15 degrees to 48, it ran about 15-20fps faster. So the published .4 fps per degree rise is fairly accurate for right now.
My batch is a little slower than my batch of Varget by around 20-25fps.
That's what I heard the Vihtavuori is much more consistent lot to lot which is nice but what concerns me is if the temperature goes from 59 in the morning to 77 in the afternoon if it will throw me out of tune.
Wow you are brave that's way way too cold for me to be out shooting.
That sounds promising are you pushing them around 2630fps?
How much vertical are you seeing and at what distance?
With 43.2 grains of VV N140, at the 48 degrees it is running around 2620-2625. With a higher than desired SD 7 and ES 20 I was getting around 1.25" for 20 shots at 330 yards with virgin brass. That was with a heavy 8-12mph winds at 9-11oclock
Still some more tuning when the warmer weather comes back around
It's a mixture. Certain 5 series powders are as well as 1 series powders. See attached for powders across the board
I have shot plenty of N140 in Palma loads with 155's and 185 jugs. I prefer it to Varget, have cooked several rounds waiting for a condition to return and never had an issue with stability.
Shoot it with confidence!
Same with N150, shot a bunch of that with 155's and cooked rounds too- no elevation issues.
Shoot it with confidence!
Same with N150, shot a bunch of that with 155's and cooked rounds too- no elevation issues.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Generally speaking, the 5 series are double based, and the 1 series are single based powders. Usually double based powders will give you a little more performance in terms of speed, but the single based stuff is more temperature stable... or more specifically, they don't go completely psycho at a particular temperature like some of the Viht N5xx series have been known to do.
Like Morgan, I've used *many* pounds of N150... mostly back when 155.5's ruled the roost in FTR, though I found it works pretty dang well behind 82gn Fullbore bullets in a .223 for mid-range also. I've still got several 8lb jugs of the stuff; never did get around to trying it with the 200s, though I might on the 185s. I've got a couple jugs of N140 that I will probably start in on this year, based on the results I've seen a number of very good F/TR shooters get with it i.e. the Michigan Mafia
In Europe, N140 + a 155 used to be the norm for 308 Win all-range especially in sling shooting. (It's still very popular with many sling shooters in fact.) Like Monte, I've always preferred N150, although with lighter bullets it won't give as high MVs usually.
For heavier bullets, above 175gn, N150 is a better choice than N140. The normal 185gn Juggernaut load in UK F/TR is N150 in Lapua 'Palma' small primer brass and MVs between 2,800 and 2,850 fps are the norm. N140 may cause 'issues' with this bulelt weight at these sorts of pressures / velocities and that could well see an apparent temperature stability problem - but it's not really, more a matter of pushing a propellant out of its pressure comfort zone into one where some, in fact almost any, changes can cause unexpected pressure spikes.
N550 was long popular with 210/215gn bullets and also with 180gn class types at one time - but people found they could get there with the single-based N150 and dropped the nitroglycerin infused N550 as a result. (BTW N540, the 'high-energy' version of N140 is a really hot number as many of us discovered in the early days of F/TR with barrels burned out very quickly indeed - so is best avoided.)
We don't worry overmuch about high temperatures in the British Isles, (but US worries get here thanks to forums like this and have scared a lot of people off some powders that don't have any issues for us at all). However, N550 can be a puzzle here. One of our consistently top F/TR national competitors is a guy called Steve Donaldson who has shot Berger 'heavies' from the early days. Having tried them all including the 230 Hybrid, Steve sticks to the 210gn Berger LR BT and it works very well for him indeed. He has used N550 pretty well consistently throughout in first of all LR primer Lapua brass and then the SRP Palma once it appeared and his barrel life is much better than rumour says it should be given 2,700 fps plus MVs from a 32-inch barrel.
Steve took his UK load recipe to Raton in 2013 for the US Nationals and World Championships and ended up using his UK N550 load without pressure or any other problems - and it was hot over those two weeks, especially week one for the Nationals. Steve shot in every available match and his rifle / ammo was also used by other team members in the Rutland Cup team he was a member of. He assures me he didn't have to reduce charges at all from his UK figure. As has been said above, Viht powders are famed for their lot to lot consistency - so this was another plus for Steve as we visitors from abroad all loaded in-country using pre-arranged locally supplied powders and primers having brought brass and bullets in our luggage by air. So that was a 30-40 deg F increase for that N550 load between hot English and New Mexico days and 60 plus degrees over what it might be used for here as we shoot F-Class all year round with winter temperatures mostly in the low 40s F, but sometimes down around freezing.
For heavier bullets, above 175gn, N150 is a better choice than N140. The normal 185gn Juggernaut load in UK F/TR is N150 in Lapua 'Palma' small primer brass and MVs between 2,800 and 2,850 fps are the norm. N140 may cause 'issues' with this bulelt weight at these sorts of pressures / velocities and that could well see an apparent temperature stability problem - but it's not really, more a matter of pushing a propellant out of its pressure comfort zone into one where some, in fact almost any, changes can cause unexpected pressure spikes.
N550 was long popular with 210/215gn bullets and also with 180gn class types at one time - but people found they could get there with the single-based N150 and dropped the nitroglycerin infused N550 as a result. (BTW N540, the 'high-energy' version of N140 is a really hot number as many of us discovered in the early days of F/TR with barrels burned out very quickly indeed - so is best avoided.)
We don't worry overmuch about high temperatures in the British Isles, (but US worries get here thanks to forums like this and have scared a lot of people off some powders that don't have any issues for us at all). However, N550 can be a puzzle here. One of our consistently top F/TR national competitors is a guy called Steve Donaldson who has shot Berger 'heavies' from the early days. Having tried them all including the 230 Hybrid, Steve sticks to the 210gn Berger LR BT and it works very well for him indeed. He has used N550 pretty well consistently throughout in first of all LR primer Lapua brass and then the SRP Palma once it appeared and his barrel life is much better than rumour says it should be given 2,700 fps plus MVs from a 32-inch barrel.
Steve took his UK load recipe to Raton in 2013 for the US Nationals and World Championships and ended up using his UK N550 load without pressure or any other problems - and it was hot over those two weeks, especially week one for the Nationals. Steve shot in every available match and his rifle / ammo was also used by other team members in the Rutland Cup team he was a member of. He assures me he didn't have to reduce charges at all from his UK figure. As has been said above, Viht powders are famed for their lot to lot consistency - so this was another plus for Steve as we visitors from abroad all loaded in-country using pre-arranged locally supplied powders and primers having brought brass and bullets in our luggage by air. So that was a 30-40 deg F increase for that N550 load between hot English and New Mexico days and 60 plus degrees over what it might be used for here as we shoot F-Class all year round with winter temperatures mostly in the low 40s F, but sometimes down around freezing.
Judd
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks, I had it backwards. Never really experimented with Viht powders.Generally speaking, the 5 series are double based, and the 1 series are single based powders. Usually double based powders will give you a little more performance in terms of speed, but the single based stuff is more temperature stable... or more specifically, they don't go completely psycho at a particular temperature like some of the Viht N5xx series have been known to do.
Like Morgan, I've used *many* pounds of N150... mostly back when 155.5's ruled the roost in FTR, though I found it works pretty dang well behind 82gn Fullbore bullets in a .223 for mid-range also. I've still got several 8lb jugs of the stuff; never did get around to trying it with the 200s, though I might on the 185s. I've got a couple jugs of N140 that I will probably start in on this year, based on the results I've seen a number of very good F/TR shooters get with it i.e. the Michigan Mafia
Thanks Brian, I’d not yet seen that breakdown ‘till your post popped up.
Hengehold
Silver $$ Contributor
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
I don't know about all of them, but more than a few. Sounded like they ended up there the same way I did with N150 years ago... got frustrated with supply issues related to Varget or H4895, and started looking outside the box.
Good to know. Probably gonna give the N140 a try. I don't have any issues getting Varget it's actually easier to get than N140 here. I'm just interested because I heard it performs better and burns cleaner
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.