understanding the lands

[nativecat01]

I had a new 6br built and have decided to try 87gr vmax. the way I was taught to find the lands is to mark the bullet and seat it till you no longer see the ring. i have the bullet way out and see a ring. I called hornady and the don't have a recommended oal. he told me not exceed 2.220 I am att 2.270. does anyone have a recommended oal for this bullet

 

[dmoran]

I suggest to go to www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos and watch "Finding your lands"
When there you may want to watch more of Alex's video's, there very instructive !.!.!
Donovan

 

[Tim Singleton]

Alex let the cat outa the bag with that video.

 

[Sniper338]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

been doing that since I started reloading. watch the youtube video.

 

[lpreddick]

Trying to find land's engravings on a V Max bullet is hard due to the sudden change from bearing surface to ojive. I'm not sure about the "ring" as lands produce longitudinal marks. The video should receive an award!

 

[mikecr]

does anyone have a recommended oal for this bullet

I recommend the OAL that tests as best, regardless of land relationship.
Neither hornady, nor anybody else, can tell you where that will be.

 

[Mikemci]

Trying to find land's engravings on a V Max bullet is hard due to the sudden change from bearing surface to ojive. I'm not sure about the "ring" as lands produce longitudinal marks. The video should receive an award!

He should recieve an Oscar award for it!!!
Ohh...wait....Hollywood hates guns, except in the movies they act in and their personal bodyguards.

 

[Zero333]

If your going to try the method as in the video and you have a bolt with a floating bolt head, you'll need to apply a little bit of clear tape on the sides of the bolt head retaining pin so it doesn't come out. For the firing pin is what keeps the bolt head retaining pin from moving. And if you follow the instructions in the video, you'll need to take the firing pin out.

If your bolt doesn't have a floating bolt head, you can totally ignore everything I wrote.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

If your going to try the method as in the video and you have a bolt with a floating bolt head, you'll need to apply a little bit of clear tape on the sides of the bolt head retaining pin so it doesn't come out. For the firing pin is what keeps the bolt head retaining pin from moving. And if you follow the instructions in the video, you'll need to take the firing pin out.

If your bolt doesn't have a floating bolt head, you can totally ignore everything I wrote.

Zero333, thanks for sharing that about the tape. OK nows the time I quess to own up to that I own a couple of Savage rifles. I’ve just been using the bent fired case method plus the cleaning rod marks method to find the lands in them. I know I’m going to have to break that crazy looking bolt down sometime to clean anyway, lol! Anybody know of the best instructions out there for this. I would also like to thank Alex for that great video, been using it on my 700 type bolts and it works great.

 

[Richard Coody]

i would like to see a blind test between finding the lands with the stoney point and the stripped bolt method. say 5 rifles one group of 5 people does the stoney point and one group of 5 people does the stripped bolt. neither group meets the other until the test is complete and they compare notes.

i know from experience that using the stoney point i hit a resistance point, which i believe is the bullet entering the throat, and then with a little more push you feel the solid resistance of the ogive against the lands. my thoughts are that with a stripped bolt that first resistance will be the point that the bolt will close by gravity. that is a ways from the lands.

 

[BDenver]

Using Alex's method dull the bullet with #0000 steel wool after you seat it. The marks are easier to see.

 

[Richard Coody]

Using Alex's method dull the bullet with #0000 steel wool after you seat it. The marks are easier to see.

shouldn't be any marks if you have a free falling bolt.

 

[Tim Singleton]

A starting place is just that a starting place.

That said, there is no way to replicate the bolt to head space and neck tension you are using with a stoney point tool. You can find a starting place with it. But if what you are looking for is touch with your rifle forget the stoney point

 

[Richard Coody]

A starting place is just that a starting place.

That said, there is no way to replicate the bolt to head space and neck tension you are using with a stoney point tool. You can find a starting place with it. But if what you are looking for is touch with your rifle forget the stoney point

you can do it by soft seating a bullet as long as the neck tension is very light and the bullet doesn't pull out even a little bit on case on extraction
i don't believe you will ever get to the lands with the falling bolt method. when the ogive goes in the leede most likely the bolt will quit falling
i do quite well with the stoney point.

 

[nativecat01]

I used the stoney point measure tool. I loaded some up and will try tomorrow. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Zero333]

Zero333, thanks for sharing that about the tape. OK nows the time I quess to own up to that I own a couple of Savage rifles. I’ve just been using the bent fired case method plus the cleaning rod marks method to find the lands in them. I know I’m going to have to break that crazy looking bolt down sometime to clean anyway, lol! Anybody know of the best instructions out there for this. I would also like to thank Alex for that great video, been using it on my 700 type bolts and it works great.

Savage bolts are very simple and very easy to work with...

http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?167-Savage-110-Bolt-Assembly-Parts

When removing the BAS ( Bolt Assembly Screw) for the first time it can be very hard and I go straight to one of my impact guns...
But the following link will give you a good idea how to do it with just an allen key. You can improvise upon this method anyway that suites you.

http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?266-How-To-Remove-A-Stuck-BAS-and-Disassemble-Bolt

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

i don't believe you will ever get to the lands with the falling bolt method.

Works with all of my rifles.

when the ogive goes in the leede most likely the bolt will quit falling

Not in my rifles. The freebore diameter is always larger than the bullet shank by 0.0002"-0.0005" for the reamers I use and bullets I shoot. Have you measured your freebore and bullet shank dimensions?

There's nothing to stop the bolt handle from falling until some part of the ogive catches the lands.

i do quite well with the stoney point.

Alex's rifles are setting world records. How about your rifles?

 

[Martin52]

Until I saw Alex's video I used a Lee Collet die to neck size with just enough grip to hold the projectile and still allow it to be pushed back on bolt closure (seated long to start with). I now use both techniques, they work well individually and as a cross check.

 

[Zero333]

i would like to see a blind test between finding the lands with the stoney point and the stripped bolt method. say 5 rifles one group of 5 people does the stoney point and one group of 5 people does the stripped bolt. neither group meets the other until the test is complete and they compare notes.

i know from experience that using the stoney point i hit a resistance point, which i believe is the bullet entering the throat, and then with a little more push you feel the solid resistance of the ogive against the lands. my thoughts are that with a stripped bolt that first resistance will be the point that the bolt will close by gravity. that is a ways from the lands.

I've compared both methods in the same rifles, one method after the other, same bullet etc..

For me, both methods read withing 2 or 3 thousands of each other.

Remember that Wheelers method takes the rifles headspace into account and the Stoney tool with modified case doesn't. Therefore both methods will always be at least 1 or 2 thousands away from each other if done properly.

 

[Richard Coody]

Works with all of my rifles.



Not in my rifles. The freebore diameter is always larger than the bullet shank by 0.0002"-0.0005" for the reamers I use and bullets I shoot. Have you measured your freebore and bullet shank dimensions?

There's nothing to stop the bolt handle from falling until some part of the ogive catches the lands.



Alex's rifles are setting world records. How about your rifles?

not a chance. how about you?

i am sure that with one of Alex's rifles or any other rifle built by a top of the line gunsmith on a custom action his tecnique will work perfectly. i just don't have one of those rifles yet.

tool marks in the leede and a round that is not perfectly concentric causes issues. one of the reasons that dimension changes after the throat is broken in. i am sure those customs have a well polished throat with the majority of those tool marks gone.