Case head seperation

[JFM33]

The rim of brass is thick to absorb the pressure because it's not supported.If the gap between the barrel and bolt face is over 5 thousands for a bench gun .I would move the tenon forward to get the barrel face closer to the bolt.Then reset the head space by turning the reamer the required amount.
I have seen one that was set up for a coned faced that had 20 thousands un supported and it ringed the brass with a mild load .Have you inserted the brass that you said had fingernail lines in them?
If the .135 is the total subtract the measurement from the bolt rim to the bolt face and see what you got .That will give your clearance .

 

[fguffey]

match what I have been bumping back to within .001, so it's not an over bumping shoulder issue.

I will say you have all the terms down pat, you are a bumper, I have presses that are called 'bump' presses, I have presses that are not called bump presses! Because RCBS , in their instructions claim a bump press is a cam over press. I have at least 14 cam over presses, all of them are bump presses.

And then there is that thing I say about reloaders; I say there is something that happens to the case between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel reloaders do not understand. One day I said I chambered a round in one of my rifles that had a modified chamber. Before I pulled the trigger the shoulder in the chamber was .127" longer from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face than the case was from the shoulder of the case to the case head. After chambering the round I pulled the trigger, after pulling the trigger I ejected the case. The case did not suffer case head separation, the shoulder of the case did not move when fired and the case only had a hint of a neck.

Before I pulled the trigger I had .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber, for most reloaders that is a receipt for case head separation or a failure to fire because the firing pin could not catch up with the primer. I could ask why my shoulder did not move but I do not believe anyone understands the question.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Case head is normall a product of over working the brass . When you size the brass with excess shoulder set back or diameter All your are doing is. Is makeing the pressure push the case shoulder foward. From the bolt face . Proper sizeing dies for the chamber is a must . Larry

Larry, Where do you get this stuff? I have tried to push the shoulder back, I have tried to blow the shoulder forward, I find it impossible to move the shoulder with a die that has full case body support. I am wondering if there is a Wizard I do not know that is making all of this stuff up. I have found there are a few of those Wizards that everyone is afraid of as in reloaders are afraid of disagreeing with them.

F. Guffey

 

[savagedasher]

Larry, Where do you get this stuff? I have tried to push the shoulder back, I have tried to blow the shoulder forward, I find it impossible to move the shoulder with a die that has full case body support. I am wondering if there is a Wizard I do not know that is making all of this stuff up. I have found there are a few of those Wizards that everyone is afraid of as in reloaders are afraid of disagreeing with them.

F. Guffey

With a die you can only move the shoulder backward . I cant tell you how many 30.06
I have made into 6 MM Remington .
When you size a case For head space all you are doing is moveing the should back . You can talk All that Wizard stuff you want . What I said is a fact . Larry

 

[Dos XX]

Ladies and Gentlemen, you have witnessed what would normally be a rare display of Authentic Frontier Gibberish. It does seem to be less and less rare on this forum. Still, you should feel lucky to have witnessed this in your lifetime.

 

[Eddie Harren]

Ladies and Gentlemen, you have witnessed what would normally be a rare display of Authentic Frontier Gibberish. It does seem to be less and less rare on this forum. Still, you should feel lucky to have witnessed this in your lifetime.
View attachment 1021613

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...B68478386A97659F6437B68478386A97659&FORM=VIRE


Larry and fguffey are running neck and neck for the "Prof. Irwin Corey Award". Given annually to the master of "Doubletalk".

 

[seymour fish]

Ladies and Gentlemen, you have witnessed what would normally be a rare display of Authentic Frontier Gibberish. It does seem to be less and less rare on this forum. Still, you should feel lucky to have witnessed this in your lifetime.
View attachment 1021613

Authentic Frontier Gibberish On A Stick. Roflmao !

 

[Sheldon N]

 

[fguffey]

When you size a case For head space all you are doing is moveing the should back . You can talk All that Wizard stuff you want . What I said is a fact . Larry

Again, a god in the reloading/shooting world reported me to SAAMI, he informed SAAMI I said the case does not have head space. It was about that time SAAMI informed him the case does not have head space and they informed him SAAMI does not use the symbol for head space in their case drawings. One more time, I do not know what is so difficult to understand about moving the shoulder back. it is impossible, I can not do it because it is impossible; and here we are; I can not move the shoulder back and you say you can, I have one standard for everyone, you claim you can move the shoulder back and I ask, 'HOW?'

And over and over I say there has to be something about the events that happen between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel reloaders do not understand. Over and over I say the shoulder on my cases do not move when I fire the case, I say the shoulder does not move back when I size the case.

What I said is a fact

You did not get any of that stuff from Hatcher, you did not get any of that stuff from Elmer Keith, It sounds to me like you have learned a few choppy phrases that co7uld be related to reloading and like others you repeat the little phrases over and over like "I bump", "case head space", "case head space gage" etc..

Now that I have your attention please explain to me how you move the shoulder back. Right up front I said I find moving the shoulder back impossible to do. I did say I could move the shoulder back with a seating die but the seating die does not have case body support, for most reloaders. they have no clue what any of that means and I fail to see why that is my fault.

F. Guffey

 

[Dos XX]

Now who can argue with that?

 

[joshb]

"The definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a different result." Riddle me this, Batman? I see it move, but you say it doesn't move. What do it do?

 

[seymour fish]

Again, a god in the reloading/shooting world reported me to SAAMI, he informed SAAMI I said the case does not have head space. It was about that time SAAMI informed him the case does not have head space and they informed him SAAMI does not use the symbol for head space in their case drawings. One more time, I do not know what is so difficult to understand about moving the shoulder back. it is impossible, I can not do it because it is impossible; and here we are; I can not move the shoulder back and you say you can, I have one standard for everyone, you claim you can move the shoulder back and I ask, 'HOW?'

And over and over I say there has to be something about the events that happen between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel reloaders do not understand. Over and over I say the shoulder on my cases do not move when I fire the case, I say the shoulder does not move back when I size the case.



You did not get any of that stuff from Hatcher, you did not get any of that stuff from Elmer Keith, It sounds to me like you have learned a few choppy phrases that co7uld be related to reloading and like others you repeat the little phrases over and over like "I bump", "case head space", "case head space gage" etc..

Now that I have your attention please explain to me how you move the shoulder back. Right up front I said I find moving the shoulder back impossible to do. I did say I could move the shoulder back with a seating die but the seating die does not have case body support, for most reloaders. they have no clue what any of that means and I fail to see why that is my fault.

F. Guffey

Knower a gal name ole Debbie could squat down an pick up a 5 gallon glass jug wit her sn__ch. bet she could move dat shoulder back fer ye

 

[joshb]

This forum is more fun than watching a circus, ........................sometimes.

 

[Rtheurer]

WOW!

 

[6MMsteve]

 

[6MMsteve]

 

[Richard Coody]

This forum is more fun than watching a circus, ........................sometimes.

i kind of feel sorry for guffey. he is the only person i know that can't seem to accomplish a task so simple as moving the shoulder of a fired case 1 or 2 thousandth of an inch.

and it is really funny when he says he can't seem to move the shoulder forward even fireforming a case.

sure we are creating a new shoulder in a new location with brass either from the case wall or neck in each of these procedures but the shoulder definitely moves.

 

[Zero333]

Sorry I have not read all the posts in the thread but once in a blue moon New brass can have too much working headspace and that's all that will take for premature failure.

Always check the HS of new brass and if it's excessive then jamming a bullet into the rifling hard with a medium load of faster burning powder will allow the case to stretch with out thinning above the head.

 

[fguffey]

Sorry I have not read all the posts in the thread but once in a blue moon New brass can have too much working headspace and that's all that will take for premature failure.

Zero333, I have said case manufacturers do not sell cases designed for reloaders that know what they are doing. Again, my favorite cases come from shooting ranges, I have no problem finding cases that have been fired in trashy old chambers. I have taken home made equipment designed to measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head to measure case length from the shoulder/datum to the case head when purchasing fired cases. Basically I am purchasing cases that are once fired, again there is stretch and there is flow. I do not know of a reloader on a reloading forum that knows the difference. And one more time I am convinced there is a series of events that take place between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel reloaders do not understand.

F. Guffey

 

[BoydAllen]

On the excessive headspace of new cases: A while back I really screwed up setting up a FL die. I have no excuse. It was simply that I had gotten rusty. Anyway, I was working with a fresh batch of cases that only had one or two firings and I did not want to excessively stretch the case that I messed up. It was a 6PPC that I had pushed the shoulder back .004-5 instead of .001. The solution was simple, and it can be done with new cases. I lubed and carefully expanded the neck with a .25 caliber expanding mandrel and die, and then resized it at 6mm with a proper die setting so as to have a little feel as I closed the bolt. End of problem. This sort of thing is done all the time to make Dasher cases. It is really no big deal.