Which addition for reloading

[Art Dirindin]

Carle, I'm going to echo what great advice has already been given. Before you invest what would be quite considerable amounts of money, please by all means first determine for near certain your investment will yield an accuracy improvement that will justify your expense.

I am also going to start annealing my brass as I shoot and reload for 300 wsm and brass for that caliber is about as easy to find as congressmen with a conscience so I need to maximize brass life. That said I am going to use as cheap an annealing method as I can come up with and because I will likely never need to anneal more than 50 pieces of brass and spending $250 to over $400 on an automated annealer let alone $1k is IMHO silly.

I had a very informative and eye opening conversation with an accomplished competitive bench rest shooter about investing large sums of money in advanced reloading tools like annealers, comparators, Forester coax press VS the 3 Rockchuckers I already owned, as well as a multitude of other tools that were 2x-3x the cost of similar but less precise ones made by RCBS or other major players in the world of reloading. His take was considering #1-I was not a competitive shooter and as such all of my shooting was either for fun or in preparation for hunting and #2- All I owned were factory rifles did it make any sense to spend my limited funds on tools that most likely would not result in a significant improvement in my rifles accuracy or spend those same funds on actually, shooting and hunting?

I could not argue with his rock solid logic and I respectfully recommend you consider such sizable investments of your funds with similar financial prudence.

 

[bcott]

When I wrote that I was not a competitive shooter I believe I made a misstatement. I am in competition with myself. I am trying to "wring" the best accuracy out of ??? that I can.

I just reread all the posts. All posters have very valid points, thanks for sharing.

I will probably purchase the AMP machine. I shall order out from Graf's & Sons when I get back to the U.P. in 9 days.

Carl L.

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Thinking about my next "upgrade" in reloading equipment. The choices: 1) LabRadar, I currently have a Oehler 35P, Satorius 64-1 powder scale, I currently have a Denver MXX 123, or a AMP annealing machine, I have no equipment for annealing.

I am a hunter and NOT a competition shooter. I only use Lapua cases for my 6mmBR, 6XC and 6.5x55SE. Not sure of the benefits of annealing, but it sure is enticing with the write-ups on the AMP Annealer.

Given my $$$ budget I will only get one of the three, or possibly none of the three. If I do get one of the three it probably will be the AMP Annealer.

The real question: Are there any significant benefits for a guy that rarely shoots at greater than 300yds at anything? Other than reducing the number of split necks....which I have never had.

I guess I should add that I am 80yrs old and have been actively shooting and reloading for the last 53 yrs.

Carl L.

I have all 3 pieces of equipment you are considering. IMO, I would recommend you first replace your scale. The MXX-123 is not a very good scale. And rather than the Sartorius, I would recommend you consider the A&D FX-120i for about 1/2 the cost.

After that, it's a tougher call. While I believe consistent annealing is critical to repeatable precision, the AMP unit, as great as it is, is a VERY significant investment. People continue to sell quality annealers, like a BenchSource, for less than $400. If you don't mind the setup/safety issues with propane torches, they work pretty well and there will always be a resale market for a quality machine like the BenchSource.

Chronographs are helpful but holes on paper really tell the story. The Oehler is good enough for your needs.

Good luck!

 

[Webster]

Thinking about my next "upgrade" in reloading equipment. The choices: 1) LabRadar, I currently have a Oehler 35P, Satorius 64-1 powder scale, I currently have a Denver MXX 123, or a AMP annealing machine, I have no equipment for annealing.

I am a hunter and NOT a competition shooter. I only use Lapua cases for my 6mmBR, 6XC and 6.5x55SE. Not sure of the benefits of annealing, but it sure is enticing with the write-ups on the AMP Annealer.

Given my $$$ budget I will only get one of the three, or possibly none of the three. If I do get one of the three it probably will be the AMP Annealer.

The real question: Are there any significant benefits for a guy that rarely shoots at greater than 300yds at anything? Other than reducing the number of split necks....which I have never had.

I guess I should add that I am 80yrs old and have been actively shooting and reloading for the last 53 yrs.

Carl L.

Don't buy the new equipment. Spend your time on the most difficult part, improving your shooting skills. My rifle shoots nice groups but I don't have consistency. I must have got a good barrel. No doubt the rifle can shoot better than my skill level. I'm 74, a GH hunter and non-competitive BR. It's a 6BR 14 twist. Just about any load shoots .350 - 400". Shoots a few 1s and a handfull of 2s every year. I have an Oehler 33. The chrono is just for range drops and fps. I do load development by looking at the target. 40 YO scale and powder measure.

 

[Joe R]

Thinking about my next "upgrade" in reloading equipment. The choices: 1) LabRadar, I currently have a Oehler 35P, Satorius 64-1 powder scale, I currently have a Denver MXX 123, or a AMP annealing machine, I have no equipment for annealing.

I am a hunter and NOT a competition shooter. I only use Lapua cases for my 6mmBR, 6XC and 6.5x55SE. Not sure of the benefits of annealing, but it sure is enticing with the write-ups on the AMP Annealer.

Given my $$$ budget I will only get one of the three, or possibly none of the three. If I do get one of the three it probably will be the AMP Annealer.

The real question: Are there any significant benefits for a guy that rarely shoots at greater than 300yds at anything? Other than reducing the number of split necks....which I have never had.

I guess I should add that I am 80yrs old and have been actively shooting and reloading for the last 53 yrs.

Carl L.

Carl,
It seems to me you obviously like to shoot and tinker, you don't have money issues, so you're just looking to learn more about this hobby of ours. I am torn between recommending a Labradar and an annealer. Since you already have an Oehler then the annealer would be my first recommendation.

Here's a video I made on how to setup the Oehler easily

I had an AMP annealer but I didn't like it ( a personal preference). I've had the Giraud, BenchSource, Annealeze, Skip's home made one and currently use the MRB annealer. They all have pros and cons, but the MRB annealer is the one I would recommend.

http://mikesreloadingbench.com/mikes reloading bench_025.htm

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Rsadams]

Annealer

 

[Richard Coody]

Carl,
It seems to me you obviously like to shoot and tinker, you don't have money issues, so you're just looking to learn more about this hobby of ours. I am torn between recommending a Labradar and an annealer. Since you already have an Oehler then the annealer would be my first recommendation.

Here's a video I made on how to setup the Oehler easily

I had an AMP annealer but I didn't like it ( a personal preference). I've had the Giraud, BenchSource, Annealeze, Skip's home made one and currently use the MRB annealer. They all have pros and cons, but the MRB annealer is the one I would recommend.

http://mikesreloadingbench.com/mikes reloading bench_025.htm

Good luck,

Joe

I know Doug Giraud has to be at the very least irritated by all the knockoffs of his idea.

 

[Joe R]

I know Doug Giraud has to be at the very least irritated by all the knockoffs of his idea.

???? Are you saying that Doug invented annealing? Or that he invented an annealing machine? Please explain.

 

[Richard Coody]

???? Are you saying that Doug invented annealing? Or that he invented an annealing machine? Please explain.

If you don't know then i can't help you

 

[MislMan]

Carl ... how many rounds through your rifles? Maybe time for a new barrel. Swap to a match barrel and work up loads for the "new" gun.

 

[Jet]

A couple wind flags to have is always a good idea. Not a loading tool but definitely an aid to accuracy

 

[243Lapua]

Not on your list but I would recommend purchasing items that will allow your reloading to be portable. Being able to load at the range is not only more efficient, it also allows you to tune loads in one sitting. A portable press like a Harrell's and a few hundred 1-2 dram glass vials to place your pre weighed powder charges in may be all you need to get started.

Good Shooting

Rich

+1. That's what I did.

 

[expiper]

Im gona try and make a movie on how quick a Lab Radar is to set up,,,,prollyy takes 30 seconds and can be done at the range while it is "hot" or even at a match ,,,because there is nothing down range ,,it is placed beside the rifle,,,can be on the ground for prone (F-class) or on the bench beside the gun,,,,it is so simple and quich that it will amaze thoes who have never seen or used one,,,Roger

 

[bcott]

Joe R.; Viewed your video. Great creative thinking. I do not have a laser, but you can bet I will in the next couple of weeks. All of my load workup is done from a shooting bench, it will be even easier. Thanks again for the GREAT tip.

MislMan; I only have about 120rounds through the 6mmBR Match barrel. The 6XC barrel is new, the 22/250 bbl is also new. Both are unfired. The 6.5x55SE has about 650 rounds through it. Blaser R8 barrels are hammer forged nitride barrels and are known for their accuracy and long life. I also had the 223Rem, 6.5x284 and 9.3x62 barrels, but I have sold them. They were also very accurate. I will now be concentrating on the lst four mentioned.

I think my decision has been made. The AMP is for sure. I believe I will also get a new scale. It looks like the Sartorius Practum 313-1S is at the top of my list. Need to do a little more research on the scale. The new chronograph can wait for awhile. I only use the chrono to confirm what I think the velocities are, based on the loading manuals.

Carl L.

 

[Richard Coody]

Joe R.; Viewed your video. Great creative thinking. I do not have a laser, but you can bet I will in the next couple of weeks. All of my load workup is done from a shooting bench, it will be even easier. Thanks again for the GREAT tip.

MislMan; I only have about 120rounds through the 6mmBR Match barrel. The 6XC barrel is new, the 22/250 bbl is also new. Both are unfired. The 6.5x55SE has about 650 rounds through it. Blaser R8 barrels are hammer forged nitride barrels and are known for their accuracy and long life. I also had the 223Rem, 6.5x284 and 9.3x62 barrels, but I have sold them. They were also very accurate. I will now be concentrating on the lst four mentioned.

I think my decision has been made. The AMP is for sure. I believe I will also get a new scale. It looks like the Sartorius Practum 313-1S is at the top of my list. Need to do a little more research on the scale. The new chronograph can wait for awhile. I only use the chrono to confirm what I think the velocities are, based on the loading manuals.

Carl L.

Before you make that scale purchase check this out. I have tried it all. This is light years ahead of anything else.

http://www.autotrickler.com/index.html

 

[Joe R]

Joe R.; Viewed your video. Great creative thinking. I do not have a laser, but you can bet I will in the next couple of weeks. All of my load workup is done from a shooting bench, it will be even easier. Thanks again for the GREAT tip.

Carl L.

Carl,
If you're going out to buy a laser boresighter to help you setup your chrono, don't get the one shown in the video (I already had that one on hand), buy one like this


It totally eliminates the possibility of accidentally shooting with the bore sighter still in the barrel. Obviously that is preferable.

Joe

 

[bcott]

Joe; Thanks for the additional info. Carl L.

 

[bcott]

Got off the nickel today. I ordered out the AMP Annealer from Graff's & Sons. Pilots for: 6BR, 6XC, 6,5x55Swede. Later I will add pilots for my TAC20, 20/250 and 20/250AI.

Although my Denver MX-123 is not the best scale out there I do have it. The Entris 64-1S scale apparently needs a "close to laboratory" environment or it will drift a LOT. That environment I do not have.

I also have the Oehler 35P chronograph, so in the end it was a simple decision. I did not have an annealer.

Carl L.

 

[gumby1129]

I had a similar dilemma last month. I was tossing around between a labradar and an annealer. I have always been a numbers guy with ballistics and reloading. I got into computer programming almost 40 years ago when there was no ballistics software for that Timex computer I bought! Having an accurate MV for the computer was always a key part that was missing. I always wanted a chronograph but was turned off by the technology involved. Skyscreens, light sensors, equipment out in front of the rifle to get blasted, did not add up to anything I wanted to mess with. With brass supplies being iffy at times and more expensive, I desired an annealer to extend the life of my brass life. Hard decision. I was ultimately made by my kids when they all chipped in and got me a labradar for Fathers Day! I was very grateful. The labradar has exceeded all my expectations and works great!! My ballistics calcs are alot more accurate, especially at longer ranges. I still have a "need" for annealer. Christmas is just around the corner.....

 

[bcott]

This month has been a crazy month. Ordered out and also received the Labradar chronograph. Sure is nice. Been to the range three times and used it to "clock" several loads. Sure is nice. My only regret is that it does not have a built in printer. Other than that. Happy. Carl L.