A few dumb questions

[Scarface26]

Gents,

I posted here a week or so ago introducing myself. I'm about to take the plunge and start loading my own. I've got a brand new 300 win mag - custom - 10 twist - that I'd like to be able to shoot anything from 190's to 215's out of. (some on here have had success with 230's out of a 10 twist). Here's the problem: I've got a lot of factory Federal 190s. Obviously, if the chamber is cut for 215's then there's quite a bit of jump when shooting the factory 190's. What do I need to pull the 190's so they're as close to the lands as they need to be?

Should I read Zediker's book and then ask questions here?

Can I do everything with a Forster press (or a Rock Chucker) or do I also need an arbor press of some sort?

Digital scale for weighing powder?

Any advice appreciated.

God bless America

 

[Brians356]

How do the factory 190s shoot in that gun? Those 190s don't necessarily "need to be" close to the lands. It would be a shame to pull a lot of bullets from loaded rounds just on that pretext. A large bullet jump isn't intrinsically bad, in fact certain bullets are known to shoot best that way.

PS You don't need a digital scale, in fact many if not most serious shooters I am aware of use well-tuned quality balance beam scales. Also, a Rockchucker press is fine IMO, but others may have more to say given your choice of cartridge, I don't own any belted magnums. Arbor press would be for using Wilson style inline dies, do you have those already?
-

 

[Homerange]

Gents,

I posted here a week or so ago introducing myself. I'm about to take the plunge and start loading my own. I've got a brand new 300 win mag - custom - 10 twist - that I'd like to be able to shoot anything from 190's to 215's out of.

That's a big cannon for a reloading newbie.
Take time to learn the craft and don't push things along too fast to start with. In fact load mild to start while you're running in that barrel.
However you're in the right place for good advice, so don't forget to ask for it.

Beam balance scale.
Rockchucker's good.

Load safe.

 

[Scarface26]

Gents,

Thanks for the replies. I don't have any dies yet. Another question is whose to get. 190's string vertically.

God bless America

 

[gotcha]

Vertical could be caused by a number of things. First that's a BIG boomer and inconsistency in your hold could be the culprit. Next comes variable neck tension or variable powder charges. A chronograph can shed some light on what is actually going on. Wide spreads in velocity(recoil) could cause the vertical stringing. If your vertical stringing has very little variance (left to right) your hold is probably good. Shoot over a chronograph to further reduce the variables and find your answer........ Also a bit of detail would be helpful are these factory loads? What type rest is being used any any other info that might be helpful. OOPS! just noticed you're shooting factory loads!

 

[snert]

Shoot what you have as is, then work up OAL for your new stuff later. vertical is often bag/rest induced, especially with bigger boomers. ISince you don't note the type of stock, i might guess a round or hunting style foreend, and those tend to hop on the bags. So before you start playing with too much, make certain your gun rides the bags.

Standard dies, Rockchucker, beam scale, and a micrometer, a caliper, an OAL measuring tool (I prefer Sinclair myself with a colometer nut) and a competition seat die are great places to start.

 

[RonAKA]

I posted here a week or so ago introducing myself. I'm about to take the plunge and start loading my own. I've got a brand new 300 win mag - custom - 10 twist - that I'd like to be able to shoot anything from 190's to 215's out of. (some on here have had success with 230's out of a 10 twist). Here's the problem: I've got a lot of factory Federal 190s. Obviously, if the chamber is cut for 215's then there's quite a bit of jump when shooting the factory 190's. What do I need to pull the 190's so they're as close to the lands as they need to be?
Should I read Zediker's book and then ask questions here?
Can I do everything with a Forster press (or a Rock Chucker) or do I also need an arbor press of some sort?
Digital scale for weighing powder?

I wouldn't try to pull the bullets forward. Just shoot them to recover the cases.

Bullets vary a lot in overall length and the length from the base to the ogive (where the bullet starts to taper). So, you really can't make any judgement base on weight of the bullet alone. Here is a good article from Berger to explain seating depth options better than I can.

I have loaded the .264 WM which is essentially the same case as your .300 WM. You need a decent press to size those cases, especially if you go with full length sizing at some point. I find the Lee Classic Cast to be very suitable to the job. It does a much better job of catching the fired primers than the Rockchucker does.

For weighing powder I prefer the balance beam scale. I have a Redding #1, but they are not available anymore. The #2 is, and is a decent scale. However, if you end up weighing bullets or cases, a digital scale works better. I don't have one, and will leave it to others to suggest a model. You of course can weigh bullets and cases with a balance beam. It just takes more time.

I suspect most end up with a powder measure to put a slightly under charge of powder to charge the scale pan. Then they use a powder trickler to top up the pan while it is on the balance beam. There are much fancier ways of doing it if you are reloading a lot, but that is what I use - Lee Perfect Powder Measure and Lyman powder trickler.

As for dies, I would recommend the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die. Later down the road if neck sizing and bumping the shoulder is not enough, you may need to add a full length resizing die. The nice part about this die is that it lets you control the size of the neck, how much of the neck is resized, and how much the shoulder is bumped -- all at the same time. The Forster Ultra Micrometer Die is nice to accurately seat bullets, but a more basic die will work too. If you don't want to go that expensive for a sizing die, the Lee Collet Die works well too. However, I don't think it bumps the shoulder, so you will likely be into full length sizing sooner than with the bump die.

To use the Bushing Bump Die you need to be able to measure the fired case from the base to a datum point on the shoulder. Most target to bump the shoulder back from as fired by 0.001 to 0.002". This lets the case headspace on the shoulder instead of the belt. By using the bushing to minimally resize the neck, and the bump to minimally size back the length, you will maximize case life. While there are other ways of doing it, I like the Hornady Headspace Gauge to measure the case length to the shoulder datum.

You might want to consider a hand primer like the Lee Auto Prime. You can prime your cases on the press, but the hand primer can give you a better feel so you can seat primers firmly to the bottom of the pocket, but not crush them.

I think that covers the basics, and you have my totally bias opinion, based on loading a magnum for many years. Hope that helps some...

 

[Patch700]

As for dies, I would recommend the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die. Later down the road if neck sizing and bumping the shoulder is not enough, you may need to add a full length resizing die. The nice part about this die is that it lets you control the size of the neck, how much of the neck is resized, and how much the shoulder is bumped -- all at the same time. The Forster Ultra Micrometer Die is nice to accurately seat bullets, but a more basic die will work too....

All due respect, this is terrible advice to give a new to the game reloader regardless of the discipline.

I have many of forsters "BB/NK dies and yes they are of great quality but if you do not have a solid grasp on what happens to brass after firing and how to make it work for your application then they can be a bane... *Unless your chamber is between .001-.003" from top to bottom over the size of said neck die you WILL be chasing your tail down the road* .. probably sooner than later.
Keep things simple , buy the best quality components and tools you can afford , stay away from neck sizing (especially with a magnum case) stick with a solid press and F/l size your cases so they will chamber smoothly after sizing.

A good quality F/L bushing die will do all the things a BB/NK die will do including one very important task... full length size lol.

Good luck.

 

[John from MN]

I've had excellent results with standard Redding dies with my 300WM.

Don't hesitate to stretch the distance a bit if you have the room. Within reason, I've had better results at long range with my 300 than I have had at 100 to 300 yds. Long distance forces me to focus, I suspect.

 

[RonAKA]

All due respect, this is terrible advice to give a new to the game reloader regardless of the discipline.

I have many of forsters "BB/NK dies and yes they are of great quality but if you do not have a solid grasp on what happens to brass after firing and how to make it work for your application then they can be a bane... *Unless your chamber is between .001-.003" from top to bottom over the size of said neck die you WILL be chasing your tail down the road* .. probably sooner than later.
Keep things simple , buy the best quality components and tools you can afford , stay away from neck sizing (especially with a magnum case) stick with a solid press and F/l size your cases so they will chamber smoothly after sizing.

A good quality F/L bushing die will do all the things a BB/NK die will do including one very important task... full length size lol.

Good luck.

With all due respect, I 100% disagree with your advice. The OP has bought an expensive custom gun, and I expect will take a few minutes to learn how to reload with the care a gun like that deserves. The single biggest mistake the new reloaders of the big mangums make is using a FL die to bang back the shoulder until the case head separates. That is why I took the time to explain how to do it right.

 

[joshb]

Ron and Patch are both bringing up good points. The "belted magnums" bring some unique problems to the reloading bench and can be difficult for a "Newby" to comprehend. I suggest that you search this board for as much info and opinions as you can find. Be careful and go slowly. Your head may explode. I try to research a little, every night.
I've been reloading for 40 years and I still use the same Rockchucker press and scale I got in the RCBS Kit I bought back in the 70's. I use them for pistol and rifle rounds, from 38 special up to 300 win mag. Hunting guns and customs. Good luck, Josh
PS: Somehow, I wound up with three sets of 300 Win Mag dies. Pm me your address and I'll send you a brand new RCBS set. FL sizing die and seater die. Merry Christmas.

 

[Patch700]

With all due respect, I 100% disagree with your advice. The OP has bought an expensive custom gun, and I expect will take a few minutes to learn how to reload with the care a gun like that deserves. The single biggest mistake the new reloaders of the big mangums make is using a FL die to bang back the shoulder until the case head separates. That is why I took the time to explain how to do it right.

Correction.. The biggest mistake is using ANY resize die and setting it up improperly...Forgive me as I am merely speaking from my hands on experience ... Perhaps you could explain how a die that you are recommending (which by the way is actually cut shorter than thier standard dies but yet does not size the body) is going to make his life easier when all he needs is a good quality F/L die (for which he WILL need at some point?? If he so choses to control his neck sizing more fluid like then by all means get a F/L bushing die.

If you are going to recommend a die that will require him to buy anothe die down the road when he could just get away with one proper die , then maybe you should be a salesmen if you aren't already although if you're going to sell something to someone you should ensure you know more about the product you are selling than the buyer does.

No disrespect intended, however the good people at forster will themselves tell you that thier BB/NK dies are for advanced reliading as they should be because they can cause problems.

In any event Good luck.

 

[RonAKA]

Correction.. The biggest mistake is using ANY resize die and setting it up improperly...Forgive me as I am merely speaking from my hands on experience ... Perhaps you could explain how a die that you are recommending (which by the way is actually cut shorter than thier standard dies but yet does not size the body) is going to make his life easier when all he needs is a good quality F/L die (for which he WILL need at some point?? If he so choses to control his neck sizing more fluid like then by all means get a F/L bushing die.

If you buy a standard FL reloading die for magnum cartridge like this, and follow the instructions from the manufacturer, this is what will happen:

The shoulder on the case will be bumped back as much as 0.010" or more each time the case is sized. This stretches the case right above the belt and will sooner or later cause a crack in the case and if you don't inspect your cases carefully the head can actually separate when you fire it. Annealing does not prevent this from happening as the case is being damaged in an area you should never anneal. The second thing that happens is each time the case is sized, the diameter of the neck will be reduced as much as 0.005 to 0.007" below nominal, and then the expander ball brings it back up to size. This extra sizing kills the life of the neck, unless you anneal very often.

If you are going to recommend a die that will require him to buy anothe die down the road when he could just get away with one proper die , then maybe you should be a salesmen if you aren't already although if you're going to sell something to someone you should ensure you know more about the product you are selling than the buyer does.

I said he MAY need to buy another die down the road. I use the Bushing Bump Neck Die and have loaded some cases five times now, and they are showing no signs of needing any full length sizing. I suspect they will continue doing that, and if they need a FL die, they are not that expensive. You only need to use it for one cycle and then go back to the bushing bump.

No disrespect intended, however the good people at forster will themselves tell you that thier BB/NK dies are for advanced reliading as they should be because they can cause problems.

I have seen none of those "problems" with my die. After 5 reloads I have not even needed to case trim. The only disadvantage I have seen with the bushing bump die is the cost.

And if you think I don't know any better be aware that I also have a standard FL die and know what it does. I also have a custom sized neck FL die and know what it does too. I am recommending the one that works the best for me, which is the bushing bump die. I suspect the reason it works well is because compared to the Redding option, the Forster both bumps the shoulder, and resizes the neck only. That is much better than a neck resize only.

 

[dkhunt14]

I said he MAY need to buy another die down the road. I use the Bushing Bump Neck Die and have loaded some cases five times now, and they are showing no signs of needing any full length sizing. I suspect they will continue doing that, and if they need a FL die, they are not that expensive. You only need to use it for one cycle and then go back to the bushing bump.
.

You either are shooting very cold loads or have a very big chamber. I think the OP is better off with a full length die and setting it up to bump the shoulders .001 to .002. Matt

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

For my .300 WM hunting rifle I use a Lee collet die and Redding body die. It's important to be able to measure what your dies are (and are not) doing to your brass. A micrometer that reads to 0.0001", a vernier caliper, and a device to measure shoulder setback (the Hornady "headspace" gauge has been mentioned, but there are others) are tools that you will use for your whole reloading life.

Alex Wheeler has made some great videos. I recommend that you watch "Sizing brass," "Does your die fit your chamber," and "Finding your lands" before you buy any dies. http://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos

My .300 WM is not much fun to shoot from the bench, but in the field it has earned its place in the gun safe.

 

[222 rem]

FL resizer do not forget imperial sizing lube.

 

[RonAKA]

You either are shooting very cold loads or have a very big chamber. I think the OP is better off with a full length die and setting it up to bump the shoulders .001 to .002. Matt

I've loaded to well over Hodgdon Maximum load, and settled on a load just over maximum recommended to get best accuracy.

 

[RonAKA]

If you are going to recommend a die that will require him to buy anothe die down the road when he could just get away with one proper die , then maybe you should be a salesmen if you aren't already although if you're going to sell something to someone you should ensure you know more about the product you are selling than the buyer does.

Did you notice that I did not run the tab up by recommending the Rockchucker over the Lee Classic Cast, or the very expensive Forster Co-AX? And I recommended a basic balance beam over a Chargemaster, as well as a basic Lee Powder measure, and Hand Primer. And I suggested if cost of the Forster dies is a factor then consider the Lee Collet Die. A full collet Die Set including a FL Die when you need it is only $65. Wouldn't be my first choice for a custom gun, but it is a better choice than a basic two die set of a FL and seater.

 

[John Russell]

All due respect, this is terrible advice to give a new to the game reloader regardless of the discipline.

I have many of forsters "BB/NK dies and yes they are of great quality but if you do not have a solid grasp on what happens to brass after firing and how to make it work for your application then they can be a bane... *Unless your chamber is between .001-.003" from top to bottom over the size of said neck die you WILL be chasing your tail down the road* .. probably sooner than later.
Keep things simple , buy the best quality components and tools you can afford , stay away from neck sizing (especially with a magnum case) stick with a solid press and F/l size your cases so they will chamber smoothly after sizing.

A good quality F/L bushing die will do all the things a BB/NK die will do including one very important task... full length size lol.

Good luck.

In all due respect, this is AWFUL advice. I load for the 375 H&H, the 300 Win Mag, and the 264 Win Mag... and have been loading belted magnums for more years than I care to remember - your advice will have his case heads falling off in no time.

The belted magnums headspace on the belt for the first firing, but after that, they need to headspace off the shoulder... the problem is that most belted chambers are way long, cuz it is not considered a "critical dimension"... and it is not checked when guns are checked for headspace.

Cases from my 264 WM are 32 thou longer when fired, then they were when they were new - you can not run that into a FL die and expect the head to last.
Belted cases should be neck sized until (IF) they get hard to chamber, then Forster Bump die is excellent to use to just kiss the shoulder back 1 or 2 thou. That is all that is needed... and the Bump dies are easy to adjust and use.
Your comment about... "*Unless your chamber is between .001-.003" from top to bottom over the size of said neck die you WILL be chasing your tail down the road*" makes no sense.
Since the bump dies does not touch the body of the case - how much clearance it has... is meaningless.

 

[dkhunt14]

In all due respect, this is AWFUL advice. I load for the 375 H&H, the 300 Win Mag, and the 264 Win Mag... and have been loading belted magnums for more years than I care to remember - your advice will have his case heads falling off in no time.

The belted magnums headspace on the belt for the first firing, but after that, they need to headspace off the shoulder... the problem is that most belted chambers are way long, cuz it is not considered a "critical dimension"... and it is not checked when guns are checked for headspace.

Cases from my 264 WM are 32 thou longer when fired, then they were when they were new - you can not run that into a FL die and expect the head to last.
Belted cases should be neck sized until (IF) they get hard to chamber, then Forster Bump die is excellent to use to just kiss the shoulder back 1 or 2 thou. That is all that is needed... and the Bump dies are easy to adjust and use.
Your comment about... "*Unless your chamber is between .001-.003" from top to bottom over the size of said neck die you WILL be chasing your tail down the road*" makes no sense.
Since the bump dies does not touch the body of the case - how much clearance it has... is meaningless.

There is more the one way to skin a CAT. It doesn't matter how much shorter a case is new over a fired one. Once you fire it, it will fill out to the chamber just like an Improved case. If he measures and only bumps a .001 or .002 it will not hurt brass. YES a regular full length die may squeeze the necks a little more but a annealing will take care of that. After a few firings annealing should be done anyways.

As far as checking for headspace in the shoulder of a magnum, the reamer is only going to cut so far in front of belt. It is really irrelevant how far. Once fired, it will fill the chamber and the shoulder will be very close to the front of the chamber. I would rather size the body some and bump the shoulder .001 to .002 to have good feeding and extraction. As far as full length sizing goes it gives as much as or better accuracy as neck or shoulder bump. The BR guys have proved this over and over. Even the 1000 yard guys are full length sizing and bumping the shoulder .001 to .002. The reason is, it is more consistent and gives better accuracy. If you have a case that is slightly tight in the chamber, and you fire it at 1000 yards it goes higher then others that fit the chamber.

Your remind me of a past poster named Catshooter. MATT