Elk @ 600 yrds

[Alex Wheeler]

Factory gun, probably not. I built a 8.5lb 300wm for a customer a few years ago, who last week took a 600yd elk freehand with factory Trophy Bonded Tip ammo. The gun loved the stuff, would shoot 3" groups at 800yds with it. Again, factory gun, probably not, factory ammo, absolutely.

View attachment 992121

3" groups at 800 with factory ammo and 600 yard offhand shots.... Not doubting you, but maybe your customer is exaggeration a bit?

 

[savagedasher]

I worked all summer with a custom 300WBY mag to go hunting in Canada . I could hit a 8' steel target at 1000 yards . Killed my deer At 75 yd . Killed several coyotes at 600 yds . All my shot were off a rest . Wes you can make a gun to do what is being ask .
But very few shooter are capable . My guess from what I see at the gun club 90 percent shouldn't shoot a hundred yards .
Larry

 

[ab_bentley]

3" groups at 800 with factory ammo and 600 yard offhand shots.... Not doubting you, but maybe your customer is exaggeration a bit?

Wouldn't have believed it except the four other people hunting with him vouched for him, including the outfitter. The 3" groups @ 800 I have pictures of. It's not a typical rifle and he's not an average hunter/ shooter.

But that's not the point of this thread. Can factory ammo be used @ 600yds, yes. Can a factory rifle, probably not.
Adam

 

[savagedasher]

Wouldn't have believed it except the four other people hunting with him vouched for him, including the outfitter. The 3" groups @ 800 I have pictures of. It's not a typical rifle and he's not an average hunter/ shooter.
Adam

I can relate to that . He is the one percent.
Great gun and nice trophy . Larry

 

[Dgd6mm]

Wouldn't have believed it except the four other people hunting with him vouched for him, including the outfitter. The 3" groups @ 800 I have pictures of. It's not a typical rifle and he's not an average hunter/ shooter.

But that's not the point of this thread. Can factory ammo be used @ 600yds, yes. Can a factory rifle, probably not.
Adam

Well said....

 

[codyki]

Shooter ability, accurate range estimation, and windage corrections will be ignored for discussions sake. I've seen guys that can shoot way better in improvised shooting positions than some guys prone with bipod.
Elk at 600 yds is a 3 moa KILL zone. Ignoring shooter and equipment alone all it takes is ammo with SD under lets say 30 fps and your good to go. ammo options do exist to meet this requirement.

I'd be more worried your buddy knows what cold bore shot imoact and velocity is

 

[fredhorace77]

You all nailed this one. For one, he told me that he got all of this from watching some show called "Best of the West" or something like that, where they do that type of stuff. I tried explaining what reloading could do for him in terms of reputable ammo, but he's not really interested in hearing all that.

He thinks he can go blow $4000 and get a rifle and scope, sight it in at 100 yards and go kill elk that next weekend, "at 600 yards", according to him. Everytime I try to talk to him about practice and reading wind, it just goes in one ear and out the other.

I'm just about at the point of dropping this conversation with him and leaving him up to learn on his own. I have very little patience for people that not only don't know what journey they are about to embark on, they could care less what you have to say about it. Especially when he called "me" for my opinion. I told him I researched long range shooting for about 3 years before I ever considered buying a rifle. And at the end of the 3 years I decided that without a proper place to practice weekly that shooting long range was just not practical.

When I was a know it all kid my dad used to say, "You will learn, you're just learning the hard way"

Sorry that was the "long story" I was trying to keep "short"

 

[jdh47]

Fred if what you say is true I'd have to guess that the elk don't have much to worry about. On the other hand accidents do happen.

Joe

 

[jpretle]

"He thinks he can go blow $4000 and get a rifle, sight it in at 100 yards and go kill elk that next weekend. Everytime I try to talk to him about practice and reading wind, it just goes in one ear and out the other."

I had a boss sometime back who had a saying.
"Some people know everything there is to know, all you have to do is ask them."

 

[fredhorace77]

That's what is so frustrating with him, I told him I don't even know half of what should be known to shoot proficiently at that distance and that he has got to spend time learning and understanding what a rifle and bullet do at that distance.

He doesn't want to hear about, or put in all the hard work and practice that is needed to be able to make a good humane kill at 600 yards. He thinks it's like shooting whitetails here in oklahoma at 75 yards. I try telling him, It's, a whole different ball game. He hasn't figured that out yet.

And when I mentioned "Mirage" he laughed....he said, "I'm not a thirsty man stranded in the desert, I could care less about mirage". I just shook my head.

 

[hogpatrol]

You all nailed this one. For one, he told me that he got all of this from watching some show called "Best of the West" or something like that, where they do that type of stuff. I tried explaining what reloading could do for him in terms of reputable ammo, but he's not really interested in hearing all that.

He thinks he can go blow $4000 and get a rifle and scope, sight it in at 100 yards and go kill elk that next weekend, "at 600 yards", according to him. Everytime I try to talk to him about practice and reading wind, it just goes in one ear and out the other.

I'm just about at the point of dropping this conversation with him and leaving him up to learn on his own. I have very little patience for people that not only don't know what journey they are about to embark on, they could care less what you have to say about it. Especially when he called "me" for my opinion. I told him I researched long range shooting for about 3 years before I ever considered buying a rifle. And at the end of the 3 years I decided that without a proper place to practice weekly that shooting long range was just not practical.

When I was a know it all kid my dad used to say, "You will learn, you're just learning the hard way"

Sorry for the story that was the "long story" I was trying to keep "short"

Good move Fred, just let it go.
Edit: I used to work with a guy like that. We called him "Rockhead".

 

[jonbearman]

When I hunted deer for instance when I was younger the whole thing was to get close to your quarry not shoot it from a state away. I don't understand why woodsmanship is on the decline so to speak. Tell him to get a 50 bmg as they will get the job done without much effort except he will need a wheelbarrow to drag the rifle around. Ask him why 600 yds is the only distance he mentioned? Something doesn't compute as getting closer would be the right thing to do for a clean ethical kill plus you can see if anything in the backdrop might make the shot impossible like another hunter walking out behind your quarry.

 

[fredhorace77]

I agree Jon, I told him, why not get closer. You're going to have to figure out how to get to him once you shoot him anyway.

He wants to be "The Best of the West"
But he's "The Least of the East" if you ask me. Smh

 

[Milo 2.0]

Just pray his guide or person's with him will let him wound just one elk for wolf fodder. Sit back, have a beer and wash your hands of people with no ambition or scruples.

 

[savagedasher]

Why would someone want to shoot a elk at 600 yards? I think Elk hunting would be turkey hunting on steroids . To me that is why I would like to elk hunt.
As far as shooting one at 600 yard it wouldn't be a problem with my equipment . All a person has to do is pratice pratice and more pratice . Larry

 

[M14AMU]

$$$$$ do not buy ELITE MARKSMANSHIP....or EXPERIENCE!!

 

[hogpatrol]

Getting closer is not always an option. What if you're on horseback or the game is way up a mountain, across a stream or river? How about twenty sets of eyes looking at you? Travel to a foreign country for sheep or plains game and try and get closer. Not going to happen. Take the blanket statement about getting closer and then argue we should be within five yards and using spears instead of high power rifles with scopes or compound bows with sights and mechanical broadheads. Where do you draw the line? On deer, on groundhogs, on prairie dogs and coyotes? Technology has improved everything we hunt with, from bullets to barrels and optics. It moves the game forward and long range hunting is part of it. Can this technology be abused? Sure, by guys like Fred's example but for those that are willing and able to put in the time and effort to become proficient like Adam's client, I have no problem with it. As far as ethics, I wish I had a dollar for each paper plate hunter I've seen at gun clubs the week before deer season. If they could hit anywhere on that plate at 50 yards, they were good to go in their powerline stands. I should have taken a photo of the last bozo I saw who had his scope mounted ninety degrees to the left and went through 35 rounds of 30-30 not hitting a 36 inch square piece of paper before he figured it out. But hey, he's ethical because he was only going to shoot fifty yards!

 

[Boyd L.]

.... I built a 8.5lb 300wm for a customer a few years ago, who last week took a 600yd elk freehand with factory Trophy Bonded Tip ammo.

Do you mean "offhand"? If so, as an experienced smallbore silhouette shooter, let me be the first to say, "WOW"!!

 

[swd]

The Best of the West show has opened up a whole new cottage industry and created a wave of complete idiots who think they just because they can buy a rifle they instantly have the skills to cleanly kill game long ranges.

I had a guy in our shop a few years ago. He had just purchased a typical not so great sporterized 1917 Enfield with the bolt face opened up and rechambered in 300 H&H. He wanted me to mount a Vortex with standard turrets and put a muzzle brake on it. Then he asks me what ammo would be good for elk at 1000 yards. I asked him what kind or expierence he had and he was a bow hunter and had never killed game more than 40 yards. I explained a little about ballistics, optics and rifles and told him why his rifle and optics weren't up to the task and the kind of expierence he needed to proficient at 1000 yards. He told me "I understand but I'm a bow hunter and don't want any more rifles. I want to shoot an elk at 1000 yards one time and this one will have to do." He was a doctor and a complete idiot. It seems there are now thousands of guys just like this.

 

[fredhorace77]

Getting closer is not always an option. What if you're on horseback or the game is way up a mountain, across a stream or river? How about twenty sets of eyes looking at you? Travel to a foreign country for sheep or plains game and try and get closer. Not going to happen. Take the blanket statement about getting closer and then argue we should be within five yards and using spears instead of high power rifles with scopes or compound bows with sights and mechanical broadheads. Where do you draw the line? On deer, on groundhogs, on prairie dogs and coyotes? Technology has improved everything we hunt with, from bullets to barrels and optics. It moves the game forward and long range hunting is part of it. Can this technology be abused? Sure, by guys like Fred's example but for those that are willing and able to put in the time and effort to become proficient like Adam's client, I have no problem with it. As far as ethics, I wish I had a dollar for each paper plate hunter I've seen at gun clubs the week before deer season. If they could hit anywhere on that plate at 50 yards, they were good to go in their powerline stands. I should have taken a photo of the last bozo I saw who had his scope mounted ninety degrees to the left and went through 35 rounds of 30-30 before he figured it out. But hey, he's ethical because he was only going to shoot fifty yards!

Very good point!!