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Want an example of why to true an action? Heres why!

Here is a small sample and history I have with Savage Arms. In the past 10 years I have purchased 3 rimfire and 3 centerfire rifles and here is my opinion of what I received.

First was a 93R17F 17 HMR rifle. This was a pre-accutrigger model. Out of the box the rifle was horrible. Trigger pull was around 10 lbs with a ton of creep. A Rifle Basix trigger kit fixed that problem. Within the first 200 rounds I was ready to throw it away or use it as a pry bar. Accuracy was 2.5-3" at 100 yards no matter what I fed it. I stayed with it and as the groups would open up I would clean the bore. I finally got it to shoot around 1.25" with the newer hornady ammo once the barrel smoothed up. I had wanted to re-stock it but there was never a stock that was right for the sporter weight barrel. I have recently given up on finding a stock and bedded it in the cheap plastic stock it came in along with stiffening the forend with the same marine tex I bedded it with. Will test it here within the next week to see if this helps. Lots of cheap metal and plastic with this model. In the end I came to the conclusion that for less than $200 what was I expecting??

Next was a Mark ll FV-SR 22LR. I had heard a lot of good things about this model but once again it never lived up to the hype, at least with mine. I bought it to do a little 22LR comps with but it never shot near what my T-Bolt does. Accutrigger adjustments on this rifle never worked so I opted for another RB and tried a Boyd's stock but it was still just a mediocre performer. My new CZ455 shoots bug holes but it costs quite a bit more.

Next was a Model 16 FCSS Weather Warrior in 243 Win I bought for my son to use as a deer rifle. I had heard great things about the newer Savage rifles but this one did not live up to the hype either. The best most loads would do was right around 1" at 100 yds. I expected more but it has never done better. I may eventually get rid of the accustock and try it again but for now it will just be an average shooter. For comparison I do not have a single Rem 700 that shoots over 1" at 100 yds and most do much better and the custom ones are all sub 1/2" guns. Accutrigger sucks on this rifle.

Next was a BMAG 17 WSM. Same issues as the 93R17 and I have also bedded and stiffened the forend so it will also be re-tested soon. Bolt handle on this rifle is horrible. It is so short there is not a lot of leverage to cycle the bolt and the bmag needs a little longer bolt handle to do this. Glades Armory fixed me up with one that works perfectly. Accutrigger adjustments on this one will also not work. To be fair my T-Bolt adjustments would not work also but I found a fix to lower the pull weight by shortening a spring and it has been surprisingly effective.

Next was an older/used Model 110 30-06 pre-accutrigger rifle with wood stock. Owner said it was a tack driver but I guess his definition of tack driver and mine differ. I plan to do a build around this action so I have kept it around. It may have once shot but it doesn't now so to be fair I will say the barrel is probably shot out. Bought it for the action to begin with so its not a big deal.

This last one was a big disappointment. Its a Model 11 LW hunter in 6.5 CM. I picked this up from a friend who was in need of some cash so I bought this rifle from him and planned on keeping the scope and selling the rifle. The rifle came with 4 boxes of factory 140 amax ammo with only one box having been shot so I cleaned the bore and headed to the range with the chrono. Best group was around 1.5" at 100 yds and the velocities were all over the place. From a cold bore I could get 2 shots within an inch of each other but the third was always thrown out of the group. With this pencil thin barrel I suspected that the barrel needed to be stress relieved and I thought this might help it. I have a 7-08 AI that has a Shilen barrel only slightly larger and it will hold its accuracy through 3, 3 shot groups easily. I have since ordered a Shilen pre-fit barrel and screwed it on myself and bedded it in to a McMillan HE stock and it shoots very well with both 130 vld's and 143 eld-x's. But for a rifle that lists for $991 it should have been better. Oh, and yes I will be replacing the accutrigger. Its just ok but I still don't like the whole lever thing.

Another thing that is frustrating about Savage is getting replacement parts. When I put the 11 LWH in the McMillan stock I did not want to use their DBM system because I ordered the stock as a blind magazine trigger guard inletting only stock so I called Savage to get just a standard blind magazine replacement. They asked for my serial number on the rifle and I knew quickly where this was going. They tried to sell me the DBM assembly and I kept telling them that this was not what I wanted but they were unable to grasp what I was needing and therefore did not get the sale. I have never had a problem getting any type of replacement part from Remington. Now that being said I very rarely call Remington.

Small sample of examples I know but as is usually the case with internet hype its all a little exaggerated. I think when it comes to Savage in most cases, you get what you pay for. ( except with my 11 LWH ). I have seen one of the earlier model LRPV that was a real shooter but it had good components.

Remington faults - crap stocks although better than Savage and hit and miss with triggers. I usually just do a Darrel Holland kit or replace it with a Timney 510.

Savage faults - crap stocks, I mean really crappy stocks, horrible bottom metal on most of the rimfires and the accutrigger to me is cheap. Thank heavens for Rifle Basix.
Oh yeah I forgot. Another reason I don't want savages is because some of those trigger parts are only available to licensed gunsmiths/dealers. I can get any rem part I want.
 
Oh yeah I forgot. Another reason I don't want savages is because some of those trigger parts are only available to licensed gunsmiths/dealers. I can get any rem part I want.
With a savage you don't need parts they have a complete trigger and safe also . Larry
 
image.jpeg image.jpeg
With a savage you don't need parts they have a complete trigger and safe also . Larry

Im def one of the few that like the accutrigger. Most of my guns are target and hunting so its nice to have that target trigger set low and knowing if it trips with a hard bolt close it wont go off. Its a nice peace of mind to have. Funny how the 783 remingtons have that now, and a floating bolt and barrel nut. Id like to see a remington print this at 400 yrds. This is 10 shots, pre " truing"
 
View attachment 988681 View attachment 988681

Im def one of the few that like the accutrigger. Most of my guns are target and hunting so its nice to have that target trigger set low and knowing if it trips with a hard bolt close it wont go off. Its a nice peace of mind to have. Funny how the 783 remingtons have that now, and a floating bolt and barrel nut. Id like to see a remington print this at 400 yrds. This is 10 shots, pre " truing"

The 783's have the same type of trigger and barrel attachment assembly as Savage because it is the cheapest manufacturing method used to produce a rifle. Not saying it doesn't work, but it is all about ripping them through the line in quick order. Why do you think the 783 is the least expensive centerfire rifle Remington now makes?

And yes, with careful handloading and good optics, I have seen a few of the older Remington 700 Sendero and VSFFII model rifles print that same 400 yard group in your target picture...and those are hunting/varmint rifles, not target rifles.

Savage gets people to pay more with their more expensive models by giving them an appealing name for marketing like, "Long Range Hunter" or "Model 12 Long Range Precision". It's the same cheap crap in a little bit nicer stock.

The higher priced Remington rifles actually have much higher standards for QC, nicer hand lapped barrels, and quality stocks so you really do get more for your money.

But this topic isn't supposed to be about Remington vs. Savage. It's about the lack of QC in factory Savage rifles. Like I said, they are economy priced rifles, so you can't expect them to be perfect every time. You want top level QC where the machining is excellent, you're most likely gonna have to pay more from a different company.

The only economically priced rifles where I have seen beautiful machining inside and out, above and below the stock lines, on every single rifle, is the Thompson Center Venture. I challenge anyone to pull a TC Venture barreled action out the stock if given a chance and compare the machining quality to any Savage or Remington. Then take a bore scope and inspect the finish of the 5R rifled barrel. For the price, you will truly be amazed.

It's ashame TC doesn't get more attention with their centerfire rifle lines. They truly are a step above Remington and Savage at any comparable price point. Get into the TC Icon, and they are a whole 'nother level while still maintaining a price point under $800. Unfortunately lack of sales drove the Icon out of production with the Venture soon to follow. Quality and accuracy was never the issue, just lack of exposure and not being able to get a foothold amongst giants like Reminton, Ruger, and Salvage
 
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I couldnt agree more about the t/c's!!! Love them! I even have a little dimension Its a handy little rifle. Of all my guns my little contender in 17 AH is hands down my favorite.
 
I couldnt agree more about the t/c's!!! Love them! I even have a little dimension Its a handy little rifle. Of all my guns my little contender in 17 AH is hands down my favorite.
Being an old IHMSA shooter I've converted a few Contender pistol frames to 23" bbl.'s in various chamberings and have also had great success. A really fun little package w/ outstanding accuracy in the smaller calibers. ..... A little off subject (my apologies) but I must agree with you.
 
Can't expect too much from a cheap Savage rifle. They're cheap because they don't pay for the time and expense on those types of details. The floating bolt head was their economical half ass solution for their bad machining.

Savage makes many models and some are very cheap. My only experience has been with the precision target action (8 of them) and all have been sub .3moa out of the box. The floating bolt head, regardless of the reason for it, just "works". The recoil lug is the only part that I have found to sometimes need tweaking because they're stamped, not machined.
I love to read all this Savage bashing. Keep those used gun prices coming down!
 
This is a far cry from truing an action. Shooting benchrest or F Class and chasing a finishing position? Then, probably not buying the actions that need truing anyway.... That's why you buy custom, so tolerances are dialed in already. Saves money and lots of time...

Is "truing" necessary? The duffers like it. If they were serious about precision, they don't work with a sow's ear trying to get it to become a purse... It is stupid to spend money on Savage, Rem etc guns. Maybe a Sako TRG or Tikka competition for a factory action, but anything else is just money down the drain. Building a retro restore on a military sniper stock? That's something else.

After you spend $1000 on custom barrel, chamber, truing and trigger work, you still got a commercial action that nobody but a buddy will pay you for if you can ever sell your "baby". Got your own lathe and milling machine? Work on a lot of guns? What is your time worth? Buy the stainless custom and be way ahead of the game.
 
Savage makes many models and some are very cheap. My only experience has been with the precision target action (8 of them) and all have been sub .3moa out of the box. The floating bolt head, regardless of the reason for it, just "works". The recoil lug is the only part that I have found to sometimes need tweaking because they're stamped, not machined.
I love to read all this Savage bashing. Keep those used gun prices coming down!

Will do. You folks can have all the Savages you can handle. I wont interfere with the market demand. Gotta help keep the sloppy clickity-clack actions cheap ;) lol

The few savages I owned in the past were pretty accurate no doubt, i wont deny that, tho two had custom barrels...but they are just so sloppy and cheap feeling and down right ugly. Who in the world on their engineering team though that action looked good when they were laying out the design??? They must have all been drunk!
 
Will do. You folks can have all the Savages you can handle. I wont interfere with the market demand. Gotta help keep the sloppy clickity-clack actions cheap ;) lol

The few savages I owned in the past were pretty accurate no doubt, i wont deny that, tho two had custom barrels...but they are just so sloppy and cheap feeling and down right ugly. Who in the world on their engineering team though that action looked good when they were laying out the design???

Ha!! I love savages but thank god that trigger is covered by the stock. Now thats cheap and ugly!! I honestly have no idea why I like them. Who knows maybe its time for a change?
 
I apologize for anyone that read some post i left about hogan. I got pissed because he came into this thread with nothing more than showing arogance and personal shots at me. Slander savage and remington or whoever because its funny but no reason to get personal.
 
Will do. You folks can have all the Savages you can handle. I wont interfere with the market demand. Gotta help keep the sloppy clickity-clack actions cheap ;) lol

The few savages I owned in the past were pretty accurate no doubt, i wont deny that, tho two had custom barrels...but they are just so sloppy and cheap feeling and down right ugly. Who in the world on their engineering team though that action looked good when they were laying out the design??? They must have all been drunk!
I feel about savage the same I feel about women The best looking isn't the best to to have . The best shooting gun I own is a pita action kreiger 7-5 twist 30.5 kreiger straigh un bedded with pillers Chambered in a 6 dasher Kiff bolt head made without a ejector bolt was re worked by me changed the weight on the fireing pin changed the cocking ramp angle install cage to a double caged bearing that firing pin is held against change the cocking ramp angle Put a roller in it leaped cocking and extraction ramp extended the bolt handle Re worked the trigger to where it is 3 oz Timed the bolt the put a mirror finish on action and barrel .
The best part is when I collect the money and the tell me I need a custom actions
Little do the know I don't have a grand in the whole rig . My wife is the same They don't make anything better my wife or my savage. Larry
 
I feel about savage the same I feel about women The best looking isn't the best to to have . The best shooting gun I own is a pita action kreiger 7-5 twist 30.5 kreiger straigh un bedded with pillers Chambered in a 6 dasher Kiff bolt head made without a ejector bolt was re worked by me changed the weight on the fireing pin changed the cocking ramp angle install cage to a double caged bearing that firing pin is held against change the cocking ramp angle Put a roller in it leaped cocking and extraction ramp extended the bolt handle Re worked the trigger to where it is 3 oz Timed the bolt the put a mirror finish on action and barrel .
The best part is when I collect the money and the tell me I need a custom actions
Little do the know I don't have a grand in the whole rig . My wife is the same They don't make anything better my wife or my savage. Larry

Love it
 
Here is a small sample and history I have with Savage Arms. In the past 10 years I have purchased 3 rimfire and 3 centerfire rifles and here is my opinion of what I received.

First was a 93R17F 17 HMR rifle. This was a pre-accutrigger model. Out of the box the rifle was horrible. Trigger pull was around 10 lbs with a ton of creep. A Rifle Basix trigger kit fixed that problem. Within the first 200 rounds I was ready to throw it away or use it as a pry bar. Accuracy was 2.5-3" at 100 yards no matter what I fed it. I stayed with it and as the groups would open up I would clean the bore. I finally got it to shoot around 1.25" with the newer hornady ammo once the barrel smoothed up. I had wanted to re-stock it but there was never a stock that was right for the sporter weight barrel. I have recently given up on finding a stock and bedded it in the cheap plastic stock it came in along with stiffening the forend with the same marine tex I bedded it with. Will test it here within the next week to see if this helps. Lots of cheap metal and plastic with this model. In the end I came to the conclusion that for less than $200 what was I expecting??

Next was a Mark ll FV-SR 22LR. I had heard a lot of good things about this model but once again it never lived up to the hype, at least with mine. I bought it to do a little 22LR comps with but it never shot near what my T-Bolt does. Accutrigger adjustments on this rifle never worked so I opted for another RB and tried a Boyd's stock but it was still just a mediocre performer. My new CZ455 shoots bug holes but it costs quite a bit more.

Next was a Model 16 FCSS Weather Warrior in 243 Win I bought for my son to use as a deer rifle. I had heard great things about the newer Savage rifles but this one did not live up to the hype either. The best most loads would do was right around 1" at 100 yds. I expected more but it has never done better. I may eventually get rid of the accustock and try it again but for now it will just be an average shooter. For comparison I do not have a single Rem 700 that shoots over 1" at 100 yds and most do much better and the custom ones are all sub 1/2" guns. Accutrigger sucks on this rifle.

Next was a BMAG 17 WSM. Same issues as the 93R17 and I have also bedded and stiffened the forend so it will also be re-tested soon. Bolt handle on this rifle is horrible. It is so short there is not a lot of leverage to cycle the bolt and the bmag needs a little longer bolt handle to do this. Glades Armory fixed me up with one that works perfectly. Accutrigger adjustments on this one will also not work. To be fair my T-Bolt adjustments would not work also but I found a fix to lower the pull weight by shortening a spring and it has been surprisingly effective.

Next was an older/used Model 110 30-06 pre-accutrigger rifle with wood stock. Owner said it was a tack driver but I guess his definition of tack driver and mine differ. I plan to do a build around this action so I have kept it around. It may have once shot but it doesn't now so to be fair I will say the barrel is probably shot out. Bought it for the action to begin with so its not a big deal.

This last one was a big disappointment. Its a Model 11 LW hunter in 6.5 CM. I picked this up from a friend who was in need of some cash so I bought this rifle from him and planned on keeping the scope and selling the rifle. The rifle came with 4 boxes of factory 140 amax ammo with only one box having been shot so I cleaned the bore and headed to the range with the chrono. Best group was around 1.5" at 100 yds and the velocities were all over the place. From a cold bore I could get 2 shots within an inch of each other but the third was always thrown out of the group. With this pencil thin barrel I suspected that the barrel needed to be stress relieved and I thought this might help it. I have a 7-08 AI that has a Shilen barrel only slightly larger and it will hold its accuracy through 3, 3 shot groups easily. I have since ordered a Shilen pre-fit barrel and screwed it on myself and bedded it in to a McMillan HE stock and it shoots very well with both 130 vld's and 143 eld-x's. But for a rifle that lists for $991 it should have been better. Oh, and yes I will be replacing the accutrigger. Its just ok but I still don't like the whole lever thing.

Another thing that is frustrating about Savage is getting replacement parts. When I put the 11 LWH in the McMillan stock I did not want to use their DBM system because I ordered the stock as a blind magazine trigger guard inletting only stock so I called Savage to get just a standard blind magazine replacement. They asked for my serial number on the rifle and I knew quickly where this was going. They tried to sell me the DBM assembly and I kept telling them that this was not what I wanted but they were unable to grasp what I was needing and therefore did not get the sale. I have never had a problem getting any type of replacement part from Remington. Now that being said I very rarely call Remington.

Small sample of examples I know but as is usually the case with internet hype its all a little exaggerated. I think when it comes to Savage in most cases, you get what you pay for. ( except with my 11 LWH ). I have seen one of the earlier model LRPV that was a real shooter but it had good components.

Remington faults - crap stocks although better than Savage and hit and miss with triggers. I usually just do a Darrel Holland kit or replace it with a Timney 510.

Savage faults - crap stocks, I mean really crappy stocks, horrible bottom metal on most of the rimfires and the accutrigger to me is cheap. Thank heavens for Rifle Basix.
Well with a username rifleman700, my guess is, your a REM 700 fan. You have got to be the most unlucky guy I have ever heard of dealing with accurate(inaccurate)guns. Owning all those savages and not one good enough for a tent stake. Damn. I'm a Savage fan ONLY because of there inherent accuracy. Yes there's a dinger in a batch every now and again but I've never owned one. No the design is not as elegant as the 700 and clones and Trigger options arent as plentiful. We all can agree even if your not savage action fans that they do shoot well in all but a few cases. Remington's aren't all shooters either. I've had a couple that couldn't varmint hunt past 300 yards until I had the action trued and barrel replaced. I own a couple savages that shoot as well as custom guns I own. I'm not a Savage guy today like I was years ago as Remington and custom actions have replaced that preference. I will not sell my accurate savages either. They do shoot. Floating bolt heads DO make that possible and if it's because savage doesn't have top notch QC, I'm not sure but the fact is, that system works. Call it what you want.
 
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This is a far cry from truing an action. Shooting benchrest or F Class and chasing a finishing position? Then, probably not buying the actions that need truing anyway.... That's why you buy custom, so tolerances are dialed in already. Saves money and lots of time...

Is "truing" necessary? The duffers like it. If they were serious about precision, they don't work with a sow's ear trying to get it to become a purse... It is stupid to spend money on Savage, Rem etc guns. Maybe a Sako TRG or Tikka competition for a factory action, but anything else is just money down the drain. Building a retro restore on a military sniper stock? That's something else.

After you spend $1000 on custom barrel, chamber, truing and trigger work, you still got a commercial action that nobody but a buddy will pay you for if you can ever sell your "baby". Got your own lathe and milling machine? Work on a lot of guns? What is your time worth? Buy the stainless custom and be way ahead of the game.

Guess you haven't noticed that Savage factory PT actions are starting to show up more frequently in the winners circle as more competitors recognize the "stupidity" of spending a lot of money on a custom action that doesn't shoot any better.
 
Will do. You folks can have all the Savages you can handle. I wont interfere with the market demand. Gotta help keep the sloppy clickity-clack actions cheap ;) lol

The few savages I owned in the past were pretty accurate no doubt, i wont deny that, tho two had custom barrels...but they are just so sloppy and cheap feeling and down right ugly. Who in the world on their engineering team though that action looked good when they were laying out the design??? They must have all been drunk!

Didn't realize that a good looking action shot better than an ugly one.

You can't make this stuff up. :-)
 
I feel about savage the same I feel about women The best looking isn't the best to to have . The best shooting gun I own is a pita action kreiger 7-5 twist 30.5 kreiger straigh un bedded with pillers Chambered in a 6 dasher Kiff bolt head made without a ejector bolt was re worked by me changed the weight on the fireing pin changed the cocking ramp angle install cage to a double caged bearing that firing pin is held against change the cocking ramp angle Put a roller in it leaped cocking and extraction ramp extended the bolt handle Re worked the trigger to where it is 3 oz Timed the bolt the put a mirror finish on action and barrel .
The best part is when I collect the money and the tell me I need a custom actions
Little do the know I don't have a grand in the whole rig . My wife is the same They don't make anything better my wife or my savage. Larry

Well said.

Money is better spend on a good barrel than a custom action.
 
I apologize for anyone that read some post i left about hogan. I got pissed because he came into this thread with nothing more than showing arogance and personal shots at me. Slander savage and remington or whoever because its funny but no reason to get personal.

I don't know what you said, but from what I've read of his posts he probably deserved whatever you gave him.
 

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