Which Hand Priming Tool

[rkittine]

I have whittled this down to two choices. 21st Century Shooting, new style S/S with 1.25 thousandths per click "Crush" ability and the K&M S/S tool with Gauge, that looks like the "Crush" amount is more adjustable.

Thanks, Bob

 

[mikecr]

I don't see at all how click adjustments of the 21st correlates to crush. It doesn't measure, right?
The K&M does.
With the K&M, you actually measure crush of each individual primer(they're each different) to each individual pocket.

 

[nmkid]

I'm no expert on this (or anything else) but, I feel that in order for any priming tool to seat your primers properly...The primer pocket must be uniform.

 

[rkittine]

I already have Primer pocket uniformers. My understanding on the 21St Century is that you first measure the Uniform Pocket depths and the primer height and set the tool to bottom out the primer with no crush and then you go as many clicks past that as needed hence 3 clicks more would give you 3.75 thousandths "Crush".

The old web Site shows 2.5 thousandths per click but the new site shows 1.25 and a slightly higher price so I assume they have improved it.

Bob

 

[dcali]

You'll go crazy trying to uniform primer pockets to the point where this matters. Hint: you have to uniform the depth from the front face of the rim, which varies by a thou or so. That said, I have a 21st century (older model), and it's great. But the adjustability is more so that you can achieve the best feel possible, not as depth gage to measure down to .001.

 

[Sniper338]

I have 21st century

 

[rkittine]

Here is the new add for the 21st Century tool. As you can see, they market it as controlling crush. And now show 1.25 instead of the old 2.5 thou.

Sniper338 - Do you like it?

http://www.xxicsi.com/super-precision-click-head-br-priming-tool.html

Thanks all for responding. Consistent "Crush" was a topic at the Williamsport 1,000 Yard Bench Rest School. The instructor used the K&M with the gauge, which seemed like it too more steps per prime. Anyone using that one?

Thanks again. Bob

 

[rifleman700]

Sinclair. Easily adjustable and quality is excellent.

 

[rkittine]

Thanks r700. I am only going to purchase one of the two that I had in my original post. So, it may be the K&M.

Bob

 

[BowGuy]

Another satisfied user of Sinclair. Excellent when detecting primers reaching bottom.

 

[BenPerfected]

Keep using whatever you have and buy more wind flags

 

[boltfluter]

I have an older K&M priming tool. The best priming tool I have ever used. Sensitivity is very good and it's all metal.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[JimPag]

I have a Sinclair and a 21st Century and in my opinion the 21st Centrury is the balls.

 

[Brians356]

I guess I'm a dinosaur, but I won't switch from my venerable Lee Auto Prime, the old round black one. It takes a bit of thumb strength, even using both thumbs, to get that last bit of crush, but I can feel exactly what's going on if the pockets have been uniformed. It's neither particularly fast nor effortless. I've read that one shouldn't use this tool with Federal primers, but I've never owned any, I use only Win and CCI, and previously Rem as well.
-

 

[dickn52]

Another vote for 21st Century. Mine is over a year old now.

 

[mikecr]

It takes a bit of thumb strength, even using both thumbs, to get that last bit of crush, but I can feel exactly what's going on if the pockets have been uniformed.

This is totally what we're not suppose to be doing in primer seating(mashing the hell out of em).
And for any other folks that think you can 'feel' what you're doing, I think you would be highly enlightened with 10 minutes of comparison and confirmation measurements between a gauged K&M and any other seating tool.
Forget feel, you flat out cannot feel what measurements would show, and 'crush' does not mean smashed into pockets with all you got, nor deftly touching.. Crush is a seating preload, typically ~2-5thou past bottom touching. It is properly sensitizing primers for the striking.

Now you can generalize that all your primers still go off, so it don't matter, but this thread is about setting crush between a couple tools.
It seems one tool that doesn't measure it -vs- a tool that does.
Still trying to understand how the 21st model measures primer height to pocket bottom, as the K&M does, from which seating is continued to and stopped at target crush. If the 21st does this, then I'm impressed, but I already know the K&M does it.

 

[rkittine]

Mike, This is why I am asking about these two tools only as they seem to be able to accurately control crush. CCI recommends 4 thou "Crush" on their 450 Small Rifle Primers as per the instructor at the Williamsport Bench Rest School. I am just trying to be a good pupil and do my homework!

Bob

 

[walker2713]

I have two of the 21st C. units.....love them, and wouldn't use anything else. YMMV

 

[R.Morehouse]

What i have been using here for a while is the Holland Perfect Primer Seater. I got this unit a few years back so my Grand Daughter could help Grandpa with his loading. She would tip the primer into place then i would seat it. It comes with a dial gauge that can do all the measurements & has the ability to set seating depth as well. I check every one after seating and don't handle any of the primers with my hands at all. It is a bench mounted unit.......

 

[mikecr]

Mike, This is why I am asking about these two tools only as they seem to be able to accurately control crush. CCI recommends 4 thou "Crush" on their 450 Small Rifle Primers as per the instructor at the Williamsport Bench Rest School.

I don't know how familiar you are with the K&M operation. I'll try to dummy down a description(to the best of my IQ).
-Picture any standard primer seater operation
-Add a platform protrusion connected to the inner seater plunger, and an external/stationary dial indicator that measures off this platform.
-If you put a case in it's shell holder and fully raise the plunger, the case is lifted against it's rim as the plunger bottoms in the primer pocket.
-You could zero the dial indicator to that position of plunger(bottomed), but you really want the zero to include the specific primer height.
-So you place a primer between the fully raised plunger platform and the dial indicator spindle -and then you zero the indicator.
-Now your zero includes and removes rim variance(as mentioned earlier), pocket depth variance, and primer height variance, all at once.
-Then you seat THAT primer into THAT case with THAT pocket, to zero value, and continue to target crush value.
-Do this for each and every priming, so that preload is actually the same for every one, regardless of stacked variances.

It probably sounds complicated & slow, but you get good at it fast, and then it no more than triples priming time(which is little).
While nothing eye candy about the K&M priming tool itself, it's actually a really good & robust tool. It's old school, with some of that schooling behind it's design. I feel like K&M's innovations deserve our support -over copy companies, that no more than spice up & divvy into other people's markets.