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Berger Bullets News from the President

First I need to let off some steam. The disappearance of your heavy 20's stalled out a long-anticipated wildcat project to the point that I'd moved on to other things. I see the 55 grainers in stock now but I'll hold off until I'm satisfied the supply will be consistent. Wait, make that "CONSISTENT".

I very much appreciate your taking the time to post and I understand your frustration. Frankly, I am surprised that I am not getting hammered by more shooters. As a shooter myself, I know what we put everyone through over the last several years. I am proud of many things at Berger but this is not one of them. We grew too fast and the demand surge made things worse. We should have resolved this situation years ago.

It is true that our 17 cal, 20 cal and 22 cal shooters were harmed the most by our unpredictable and excessively long set up processes. These particular calibers were seriously neglected while we struggled to get other calibers running and were unable to keep up.

I'll admit that while we analyzed this situation we had to make choices to shut production machines down while we conducted designed experiments. This made the situation worse in the short term but its proven significantly impactful for the long term.

I won't forget those who use our smaller caliber bullets and how they suffered through this situation.

Regards,
Eric
 
Eric you seem to be contradicting yourself. You will either produce more or you will not.
If you put more pressure on the industry for higher volumes of quality bullets it is an improvement.

If you are lowering your standards that is not what you implied in the preceding paragraphs.
So which is it?

Why bother with any of this news if you are going backward in either production or quality. No one does that without committing suicide in the market.

Quoting you
>>>We take great pride and delight in relaying the news that Berger has successfully proven a significant increase in the amount of match grade quality bullets we can produce. After implementing the solution to our jacket making process in March of 2016, we are averaging nearly two times our record jacket output.<<<

I appreciate your logic but I disagree with your conclusion that our running faster will be good for the industry. I believe it will lower the standards we've worked so hard to establish.

This is proven to be a significant motivator to the industry. It is clear that they are working hard to reach the standards we've set. Our plan is to push these standards even further.

We know that when bullets are formed at a faster speed than we use now the results will show up on the target as dispersion. We already know how to make them faster. Going faster is not a secret process. We choose not to go faster deliberately.

We make this choice because we are focused on achieving the tightest precision. There is a reason we are the only "factory" brand used regularly in competition bench rest shooting.

We are going to spend more money on process improvements anyways. The tools we are using now are addicting to people like us.

Regards,
Eric
 
Eric you seem to be contradicting yourself. You will either produce more or you will not.
If you put more pressure on the industry for higher volumes of quality bullets it is an improvement.

If you are lowering your standards that is not what you implied in the preceding paragraphs.
So which is it?

Why bother with any of this news if you are going backward in either production or quality. No one does that without committing suicide in the market.

Quoting you
>>>We take great pride and delight in relaying the news that Berger has successfully proven a significant increase in the amount of match grade quality bullets we can produce. After implementing the solution to our jacket making process in March of 2016, we are averaging nearly two times our record jacket output.<<<


I took what he said to mean that they werent running faster but scheduling better for less down time and maybe adding more shifts,,


you can work smarter and get more done than working harder,,

I just hope it works out,,
 
Nobody likes chasing components. Nobody I know of likes only being able to buy components in small lots, forcing repeated load development cycles. I have a new lot of Varget, for example, which is right now giving me absolute fits.

In an ideal world we could reach out and buy exactly what we wanted when we wanted it, and then trust it completely. If all you want is to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards, you can do that now and probably always could. But we are constantly pushing the envelope, demanding constantly improving and extreme performance, in a sport with rapidly growing popularity (which is a good thing). The good stuff disappears quickly. And while I don't like it when I need something, I like the number of people who show up and shoot so I "get" it.

Frankly, I find it reassuring that Berger is stating that, rather than simply adding more hardware and pushing more product out the door, they have examined their process and found and implemented a process improvement which they have run for a few months and now have enough confidence in to announce to us. This sounds like a prudent approach such as would be taken by engineers. Kudos!

If you have found a way to make better product while producing higher volume, I think that's pretty freaking awesome. I hope this doesn't mean there's a price increase coming.
 
I can appreciate everyones passion but there are other boutique makers filing the void to a point. Every company goes through growing pains with more demand and new shooters coming on board but I stand with Berger because I feel they are going in the right direction regardless of production problems. Lets give them some breathing room now they figured out how to produce more bullets. Keeping in mind that Walt started in his garage and I actually have a decent supply of 80 grain fp he actually made. I use them sparingly. Berger has done a lot for the shooting sports and let us not forget that.
 
Eric you seem to be contradicting yourself. You will either produce more or you will not..

To Eric, "running faster" means literally upping the speed of the machines. Running them faster WOULD decrease quality.

As Mr. Big said - Eric is producing more bullets, but doing so with less downtime, not by running the lines faster. To the end user, more bullets per year leaving Berger might seem like "running faster", so the confusion is understandable.

Kinda like taking what's normally a 6 hr road trip and doing it in 5 hours... did you drive faster? Or simply stop for beef jerky and coffee less often? :-)
 
Competition between vendors, more care in production, and increased production volumes usually result in more, better, and less expensive product in capitalist systems.

I expect it to work out that way in the precision bullet market also.

Greater care in production, increased output, and a competitive market are all good things for bullet consumers in the long run. There are always glitches as producers adjust to changing demand.
 
Nobody likes chasing components. Nobody I know of likes only being able to buy components in small lots, forcing repeated load development cycles. I have a new lot of Varget, for example, which is right now giving me absolute fits.

In an ideal world we could reach out and buy exactly what we wanted when we wanted it, and then trust it completely. If all you want is to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards, you can do that now and probably always could. But we are constantly pushing the envelope, demanding constantly improving and extreme performance, in a sport with rapidly growing popularity (which is a good thing). The good stuff disappears quickly. And while I don't like it when I need something, I like the number of people who show up and shoot so I "get" it.

Frankly, I find it reassuring that Berger is stating that, rather than simply adding more hardware and pushing more product out the door, they have examined their process and found and implemented a process improvement which they have run for a few months and now have enough confidence in to announce to us. This sounds like a prudent approach such as would be taken by engineers. Kudos!

If you have found a way to make better product while producing higher volume, I think that's pretty freaking awesome. I hope this doesn't mean there's a price increase coming.

As with all products, increased quality adds value. I hope the new Berger bullets will add to accuracy which creates increased value. The shooter always has to option to buy components with less value, including less costly Burger bullets.
Ben
 
Eric, are the new and improved jackets/bullets on the shelf now? 9000 lot series? I know you stated you were running the new jackets in March but wasn't sure if they were being released with the latest lots. It may have been stated before on this thread but I may have missed it. Thanks for putting yourself out here for all the blood shed some people are just perfect and have never had to play catchup! But I myself as a business owner completely understand. The others will someday!

Chris
 
Eric you seem to be contradicting yourself. You will either produce more or you will not.
If you put more pressure on the industry for higher volumes of quality bullets it is an improvement. If you are lowering your standards that is not what you implied in the preceding paragraphs.
So which is it?

We are making more products but this is not from running our machines faster. We are using the same machines we've always used and we are running them at the same speed.

What we've changed is how long it takes us to get the machine running jackets at the .0003 TIR or less tolerance. We won't make jackets unless we meet or beat this tolerance.

If a particular volume of jackets (X) takes us 3 weeks to complete once the machine is running this is a fixed volume based on an output per minute of the machine.

If the time it takes to get a machine running at .0003 TIR or less is 5 days then our output is X over 3 weeks and 5 days (for those with calculators we run a 6 day work week).

If the time it takes to get a machine running at .0003 TIR or less is 5 weeks then our output is still X but it take us 8 weeks to produce the same amount.

The second scenario is what we've been fighting for literally decades. What we ran into over the last few years is that the demand for our bullets is high enough now that we maxed out our capacity when it takes us 3-5 WEEKS before we get a machine running jackets at .0003 TIR or less.

Shortening a set up time of 3-5 weeks down to 3-5 days is what has increased our output. The .0003 TIR requirement is still the same. The machines are still running at the same speed. The quality of the bullets is still the same.

In fact, since this change was implemented we are also seeing a significant improvement to nose forming. Those who know what "folds" are will be very happy to hear that the reduction in the amount of folding we are seeing is pleasantly surprising since this is not what our study was targeting.

Regards,
Eric
 
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I took what he said to mean that they werent running faster but scheduling better for less down time and maybe adding more shifts,

To clarify, our improvement just reduced the down time. We are also scheduling smarter but this is only an improvement when it is combined with reduced down time. Reducing the down time is the key.

We still run the same amount of shifts. Training people to do what we do well is a time intensive process. We run 20 hour days, 5 days a week and regularly but not always run a 6-12 hour day on Saturday. Our people are first rate and they love the overtime.

Years ago, we experimented with making bullets using a 3rd shift. Making a premium product using people who are willing to work on a 3rd shift is like drilling a hole with a shotgun. You can do it but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Regards,
Eric
 
If you have found a way to make better product while producing higher volume, I think that's pretty freaking awesome. I hope this doesn't mean there's a price increase coming.

I can assure everyone that our prices are locked up for the year. Our focus is entirely on maintaining and improving quality while we reduce downtime. We know our prices are higher than the others but this comes from a deliberate choice we make regarding our forming process.

As the wise say, "I can give you cheap or I can give you good, I can't give you both." We choose good.

Regards,
Eric
 
Keeping in mind that Walt started in his garage and I actually have a decent supply of 80 grain fp he actually made. Berger has done a lot for the shooting sports and let us not forget that.

I started making bullets for Walt the year after he enclosed the end of his garage so he could move his presses out of the spare bedroom and get serious about growing his brand. Walt's grandson is our current Plant Manager. He started making bullets when he was 10 years old (don't tell CPS).

We are still the same company with the same beliefs about quality as we held back is his garage. We just don't fit in that room anymore. Thank you for your kind words.

Regards,
Eric
 
Eric, are the new and improved jackets/bullets on the shelf now? 9000 lot series?

We started making jacket production runs with the proven procedure in the middle of March. Many but not all of the bullets we are making now are coming from these jackets since we were so far behind.

I am posting this from my living room so I don't have access to the lot numbers that we were using when this started.

To be clear for everyone's benefit, jackets made prior to the middle of March were of the same quality meeting and beating our .0003 TIR standard. They just took us a lot longer to get running.

Thank you for your kind words.

Regards,
Eric
 
Joe:

I respond to your thread simply because I have so much respect for your shooting accomplishments over the decades as well as the great respect I have the all of the Penn. clan of shooters that always seemed to be a steep ahead of the rest. It just seems like a friendly spot to deposit my thoughts.

As to Berger, without saying more, they are on a mission to produce the best commercial, competition bullets on the market. Assuming that they already do, the real issue is can they be better? Berger is saying "yes" to that question and want to make their launch when their high standards are met. We are very fortunate to see Berger and Sierra being very aggressive with their mid and long range product line. It has always been about bullets and barrels and will continue to be so. Improving on their already great J4 jackets is huge -- as a new bullet maker I sure have learned to appreciate that.

Now. as to meplat modifications and enhancements by the individual shooters: Of course we have the Whidden and Hoover systems and a few great craftsmen who have spun their own -- not for sale -- but to enhance their own game and that of a few friends. As you know, these dies and advancements are held as tight as the unspoken and critical details of the Huston Warehouse. Having said that, there has been a lot of misinformation and incorrect assumptions floating round for years -- especially now. Respectfully, and with as much humility as possible, meplat modifications have been my "Baby" since the work of Ferris Pindell and I in 2002. I am now approaching 300,000 closed meplats with the learning curve advancing with the repetitions over the years -- especially in the last 18 months or so. In that regard, I would like to share a few "general" but absolute truths regarding the subject.

Meplat closing and ballistic enhancement of the meplat is NOT a closing die issue -- it is a closing PROCESS. I see where a few very respected contributors to this board have said that meplats can be closed too small. That closing meplats does not work on all bullets, etc. These statements or assumptions are correct -- but for all the wrong reasons and the process is simply not understood.

You cannot close a meplat too small -- but you can close it too small for the process you are using. I can close meplats to basically nothing without a bulge. Oh, I have been there and done it incorrectly as well but I developed a "fix" for the problem. So as to closing meplats too small -- incorrect -- but correct is you don't have the process down.

Many assume or state that closing meplats does not work on all meplats (hollow). Incorrect. Again it is the process and not just the closing die. Of course, conventional BR shooters will see the least gain in performance, but when done correctly, most if not all of the meplat defects in say a 68 grain 6mm bullet will not be a victim of conditions as much as the unmodified bullets -- especially at 200 yards. ALL bullets with hollow jackets can be improved with the proper meplat closing process.

When you close meplats with a process, as when coaching, you look at what the other side (the bullet) will give you. You take it. Do you just move on from there? NO! When you get the process down, you take what the bullet gives you and then -- you take what you want.

BC: I must admit that threads on this subject drive me nuts. You can have a POS bullet that has great BC. BC is very important but is only collateral to consistent BC which gives you waterline at 600 and 1000. That is how championships and records are broken. if you don't have waterline BC, you have NOTHING in my mind. As an example, I have a world class prone shooter now shooting my tricked out 7mm 180 Berger Hybrids. He has sent me pictures of his groups and it is fair to say that he his somewhat freaked out. He has never seen waterline like that. in fact, his PRONE group waterline would thrill most 600 and 1000 yard BR and F-Class shooters. By the way, it is not John Whidden who can do the same with his tricked out 6mm Hybrids. These people live in a different world when it comes to the prone game.

While this is a very general post, I suspect it will get the mind set working for an interested few who want to improve their meplat closing and modifications. For various reasons, I may participate in a seminar or video that reveals what I have learned since Ferris and I worked together in 2002. If I do, I will reveal my entire process so the everyday shooter and the champion who can employ the same if they want to -- for center Xs or head shots on woodchucks. It is just hard for me to let go, but I am not a spring chicken and don't want to take it with me. Different things are in play, but one way or the other, the shooting community is going to get the benefit of my passion for improving the ballistics and waterline of already great bullets.

Respectfully and Semper fi to all on this Memorial Day weekend.

Jim Hardy
Hardy Custom Bullets, Inc.
Passion + Precision = Perfection
Shop: 770-886-1997
Cell: 770-855-8960 (best)

Jim, I think I got a glimpse of what you're referring to when when we spoke after the Black Hawk. I truly hope you'll do a seminar or video -- and I'd be happy to assist with logistics any way I can.

For those who don't know Jim: I would bet he knows as much as anyone out there about how to optimize ammunition.

Dave Rabin
 
I Think it is important for a lot of shooters and suppliers to realize Eric's commitment to making quality bullets at a commercial level is second to none. The temptation to just turn up the machines and fill orders must have been extremely high. That would be easy to do, not as good for the long haul though. Eric goes the extra mile in my opinion, not just with the bullets, but how they sponsor a match and the many other things Berger does for shooters. He doesn't have to do that, he must WANT to. Most people these days are more concerned with profit. I still do not know how he does business in California, But... Not that many other bullet makers would even bother to come on the internet and admit they had problems with any portion of production. I think its great that production will be spead up without the loss of quality. i know some of Eric's workers, see them at matches, and they are always top notch in how they run things.

I shoot at Lodi, its my home range, we are doing improvements to our range so we can keep up a little with how his match runs at Ben Avery. Just as good as Berger... its a goal we should all try to reach. Not enough people like Eric Stecker in this game!
 
Eric, I appreciate you apologizing , but it is not necessary . We have started receiving out bullets we ordered through the junior team fundraiser last October . Again we appreciate the support you give Junior shooters and will continue to promote and use your bullets.
It also helps that they shoot really well.
 
Hi Eric
Is there anything new on the 30 cal 115 gr platform,? [30 BR] I need to order more bullets and am wondering if I should look for something special.

Thanks
 
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Having used Berger for many years, I have come to love them for all applications from hunting to target shooting (17 big game kills with Berger). They are my "go to" bullet when searching for high levels of accuracy. Fortunately I wasn't effected by the recent shortage because I always keep a healthy supply of ALL components (powder, primers, bullets, brass). I never wait for the signs of production shortage to start stocking up. When i find something that works, i immediately buy in bulk. However, it is nice to hear this news. I was wondering if folks had stocked up on Berger or if production had increased because they are available on the shelf of just about every sporting goods store in town that carries them. When my favorite mountain big game hunting rifle already shoots 3/4" groups at 300 yards using the 140gr hunting VLD, I doubt I could shoot any better to notice the difference in uniformity of the new jacketing process. But always great to hear Berger continues to strive for perfection. Thank you for making such great bullets and caring about your customers enough to make necessary changes to meet their demands :)
 

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