87 V-max Question

[pmarauder]

I recently purchased some Hornady 87 V-max for my .243. Upon seating the bullets with my Redding Mic seater die, I noticed a ogive variation of up to .005. (using bullet comparator) So i started measuring just the bullets from base to ogive and sure enough..... .005 variation from base to ogive. Is this common? Needless to say, they didnt shoot very well. Anyone have any luck with these bullets?? I had them just touching the lands.

My rifle is a blueprinted rem 700 with a Douglas ultra match 26" 1-10.5 Usually shoots in the .2 to .3 at 100 yards.
does anyone have any Load reccomendations for this set up??
thanks

 

[22243win]

I have found the same to be true of Amax bullets. That being said, they usually stay around an inch at 300. I sort them and shoot in like groups. The 87 Vmax is my favorite varmintr bullet inside 1000 yards.

 

[jo191145]

Try backing them off the lands to about .020".

My lot varies around .002" in bearing surface. Like you I'm in the process of trying to get them to shoot in a 243.(Savage VLP) I recently completed a seating depth test that signaled .020" off the lands is the sweet spot in my rifle, roughly. I shot 4 shot groups at 200yds varieing .010" in seating depths. Haven't had a chance to retest and verify that tho. .020" off grouped .537 at 200. Maybe just a fluke.
I know for a fact they won't shoot jammed .020" with Ramshot Hunter in my rifle ;D Thats where I started.
If .020" off doesn't work for me its back to the 80 Bergs

Probably draw a lot of heat for this. JMO but this "just touching" stuff is highly overated. Any seating depth test I ever did in any rifle indicated just touching to be the absolute worse seating depth.
I know others have good luck there. Never me.

 

[762willdo]

This is my match bullet for 300 meter, like they said above jump um a little bit and they will shoot
6mmBR 31.5 varget and 450's = .3's

 

[lpreddick]

pmarauder: my ?last purchase or 87 vmaXS consisted of 100 bullets none of which weighed 87 gr! some were over by .9 gr and most astounding was the tremendous variation in base to ogive measurements! a bullet seating nightmare was averted by sorting into an egg carton filling all holes with bullets...most in one hole was about 18! i recieved a replacement box from the vendor and suprise...they were the same lot as the mismatched ones, but they only varied by .1gr and the base to ogive was the same! the computer controlled bullet making machine must have had a brain f--t. they shot very well. i now weigh and ogive measure every box of bullets, even berger will occasionally have two different bearing surface measurements. now, if i can have some controll over the other 4000 variables that influence this sport/hobby/obsession.

if i can see you, i can touch you!

 

[Taildrag15X]

I've had get results with them in a Rem. 700 in F-Open, 300-600 yd. jumping 0.015 over H4350, Win. brass, Fed. GMM primer, shot a 149-13x with them from a stock rifle.

Thanks again tommeboy!

 

[1000yardstare]

Used the 87 VMax as my 300 yard bullet for F Class in a .243 Savage 12FV two years ago. Regularly put five into 2 inch groups at 300 yds off a bench. Never sorted the bullets by length or weight.

Won the Saturday Agg (300, 500, 600, 900) at the 2008 Ontario Fullbores in Factory F Class, called F(M) in Ontario, using the 87 VMax at 300, 107 MKing for the longer ranges.

Seated the 87 VMax .020" off the lands, chronod at 3250 fps with H4831.

Tried the 87 VMax in my new 6AI at 300. Am getting the same 2 inch groups at 300 with RL22, chronos at 3450 fps, .020" off the lands, bullets unsorted.

But am not doing as well with the 6AI and 87 VMax at 300 in F Class competition compared to the .243. I am thinking this may be due to the increase in recoil and muzzle blast.

Looking ahead to my next 6mm barrel, I am seriously thinking of the 6 Super LR which has about one grain less powder capacity than the .243. It is a simple resize of the .243, pushing the top of the shoulder back to give 30 degrees which produces a longer neck. And I have all that .243 brass from 2 years ago.

Am looking forward to seeing how the 87 VMax will do at 300 out of the 6 SLR.

 

[pmarauder]

Thanks for all the info. Well, after reading these responses, I went down and measured and also weighed all remaining 87 v-max's. I used my pact bbk 2 scale first and had weights of 86.7 on the low end up to 87.8 on the high end. i then re-checked these weights with my 5-0-5 scale to confirm... WOW!! 1.1 grain of weight difference..... Do you think i am being too critical for "varmint bullets"? or should i just shoot the darn things?
Also, base to ogive had variances of .003..... I think my first post stated .005 variance, but this was just a fluctuation on my micro seater turret of .005 (not an actual measurement)

Thanks

 

[1000yardstare]

pmarauder, my honest response is that Hornady is giving us the best bullet they can for the cost. If they turned the bullet into an AMax, the cost would increase considerably.

The Hornady manual rates the 87 VMax as a Varmint bullet only. No check mark under the Target/Competition column. Even then, the accuracy of the bullet is on a par with many other "target bullets" used in heavy barrel target/ varmint rigs.

I have seen other chaps sort bullets for their F Class rifles but I never have. I put as much effort as I can into reading the wind, not worrying about minute details that lead more to doubt than to positive results. What I don`t know ain`t gonna hurt me.

 

[Gman]

Used the 87 VMax as my 300 yard bullet for F Class in a .243 Savage 12FV two years ago. Regularly put five into 2 inch groups at 300 yds off a bench. Never sorted the bullets by length or weight.

Won the Saturday Agg (300, 500, 600, 900) at the 2008 Ontario Fullbores in Factory F Class, called F(M) in Ontario, using the 87 VMax at 300, 107 MKing for the longer ranges.

Seated the 87 VMax .020" off the lands, chronod at 3250 fps with H4831.

Tried the 87 VMax in my new 6AI at 300. Am getting the same 2 inch groups at 300 with RL22, chronos at 3450 fps, .020" off the lands, bullets unsorted.

But am not doing as well with the 6AI and 87 VMax at 300 in F Class competition compared to the .243. I am thinking this may be due to the increase in recoil and muzzle blast.

Looking ahead to my next 6mm barrel, I am seriously thinking of the 6 Super LR which has about one grain less powder capacity than the .243. It is a simple resize of the .243, pushing the top of the shoulder back to give 30 degrees which produces a longer neck. And I have all that .243 brass from 2 years ago.

Am looking forward to seeing how the 87 VMax will do at 300 out of the 6 SLR.

Where can I read more about this 6 Super LR ?

 

[jo191145]

pm

I'm in the same camp as 1000yardstare. I go well out of my way to never sort bullets.
Then again 300yds is max distance for me at this time.
So far I've had great luck with Hornady and Bergers as far as consistent lots go.
Can't say the same for Sierra.

I have just nine 87gn V-Max left in the box I was using. So without opening another box the weights of those nine vary 00.22gns.
Measured on an Acculab with .02gn resolution.

Shot nine rds today at .020" off jam. Six of those grouped roughly .25moa at 200yds. Three were flyers and not just close but real flyers opening the group to roughly 1moa??? Left the target outside. Saw everything I needed to see through the scope.
I'm close but still getting the huge flyers I had hoped the seating depth change would cure.
Maybe a different primer, maybe a different powder,maybe a different shooter

With the huge push on the manufacturers to get components out the door I think your seeing a slip in the QC department to find 1.1gn variations.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Gman,

I think if you check here you could find out some info.....

http://www.6mmar.com/Super_LR.html

IMO the 6mmCM is not to be forgotten, there is plenty of info on here for that, just use the search fuction.

 

[Gman]

Thank You for the link !

 

[persico]

"Shot nine rds today at .020" off jam. Six of those grouped roughly .25moa at 200yds. Three were flyers and not just close but real flyers opening the group to roughly 1moa??? Left the target outside. Saw everything I needed to see through the scope.
I'm close but still getting the huge flyers I had hoped the seating depth change would cure".


I've had very similar results with the 75 & 87 grain V max's in my Savage model 12 VLP. It would put 2 into the same hole at 100 yrds. and then I'd always get a flyer that would open the group to an inch or more. I've never had that problem with Nosler bullets (using the same components case, primer, seating depth etc....)
I don't have a bullet runout gauge and I've yet to weigh them for comparison. What I can say is that I've heard of this issue from many other people using this bullet. Need to experiment more...

 

[SailorPaul]

Just tried first batch of handloads with Hornady 87 grain VMAX in Savage Model 10 Predator Max 1 camo. Loaded them longer than the factory ammo (Hornady recoil lite) because my CLOA to just touch the lands with this particular bullet appears to measure 2.711 inches

Update on 7/11: twist is 1 : 9.25

Handload CLOA 2.677 inches
with H4831sc Remington 9 1/2 primer
Best handload group 0.737

Factory CLOA 2.614 inches
Best factory group today 0.507
On different days same factory load 0.447 and 0.278

Any thoughts ?

BTW, Forgive me. Boats come in LOA so CLOA (cartridge length overall) feels right coming out of my brain. Just can't get COAL out, unless I'm talking about metallurgical grade black stuff

 

[mongo chicago]

I shoot the 87 gr Hornady in a 6mm Rem Ruger #1. Just off the lands and grooves. Vel is 3213 using Varget. Got 4" groups @ 500 yds.

 

[Monte F]

I could not get them to group well in my .243 Rem. R-25. Nosler 70 gr. Ballistic Tip and Berger 90 gr. match shoot much better for me.

 

[mongo chicago]

Check the twist rate.

 

[ranger3]

I loaded some 53 gr VMAX.224 oal to ogive was erratic. Measured bulet ogive oal just as erratic, but man do they shoot. Not sure why but I am past questioning it. Just shoot.

 

[centershot]

I loaded some 53 gr VMAX.224 oal to ogive was erratic. Measured bulet ogive oal just as erratic, but man do they shoot. Not sure why but I am past questioning it. Just shoot.

How far off of the lands did you seat the bullet?