Long Range Hunting isn't for everyone, it requires for you to do your homework

[Rustystud]

There are many levels of shooter, equipment, and knowledge and experience.

Be ethical and do your homework. I have shot many deer at 900-1000 yards with a rifle and bullet suited for doing this.

I have shot 100s of deer at at ranges from 30-300 yards.

A great gun writer Bob Hagel once wrote, "there is no such thing as shooting to much gun, dead is dead."

I think there is an equally important statement, you can't be a too experienced shooter.

If you are going to hunt at extreme distances, practice with what you are going to shoot.

You can't rely on what someone else says.

Sit down an shoot your rifle and loads from 50 yards to your desired distance. After reaching 300 yards you need to practice at 25 yard intervals. Keep a log of your scope settings. Because your vertical changes more rapidly and your velocity drops off.

There are accurate rifles and there are flat shooting accurate rifles.

They are not always the same. Generally flat shooting rifles have more recoil and muzzle blast.

With the general shooting population there is an inverse relationship between flat shooting rifles and accurate rifle shooters. The General population can not shoot a flat shooting rifle as accurately as an accurate rifle. Example the average guy can't shoot a 7mmSTW or 300 Ultra Mag as well as he can shoot a .243 or 308 Winchester.

Shot placement and bullet performance are more important than flat trajectory.

Shot placement comes from knowing your distance and your equipment, confidence and a little luck.

Shooting a 2-3" group with .243 or 308 at 600 yards is much easier than shooting the same group with a large magnum.

Again practice practice and practice some more.

After you get your equipment issues resolved you will have to learn to read the wind. There is no better teacher than shooting F-Class or Long Range Bench Rest or Tactical rifle.

If you don't have time to shoot your rifle a couple hundred rounds every year you should not shoot game at ranges at over 300 yards.

I personally shoot tens of thousands of rounds every year. At known distance I can hold my own. At unknown distances I consider myself to a novice with 45 years shooting experience.

Get yourself a good range finder and go practice with your rifle.

Be a responsable shooter and remember you represent all of the shooting community out in the public.

Nat Lambeth

 

[Greg110]

VERY well spoken, sir!

 

[Erik Cortina]

Well said!

-X3M

 

[squirrelduster]

Excellant advice Nat.
I would add that not only must you shoot several hundred rounds per year but the majority should be off the bipod or whatever you plan to use in the field.
I wouldn't consider shooting several hundred rounds off a concrete bench with mechanical rests a valid test of your hunting marksmanship.
Shoot the rifle in the hunting configuration you plan on using.

 

[Rtheurer]

Very well said, Thank you sir.

RussT

 

[cliffy]

Proper deer-hunting STOPS at 350 yards! Wild, LONG-Range shots start at 400 Yards and claimed out to 600 yards are nonsense. Stop my pounding heart! GET REAL! Why do we stalk? Why do we wish to get closer? Why do we call ourselves practical hunters beyond positive kill hopefulness? cliffy

 

[CJ6]

The PURPOSE of hunting is the stalk. The PURPOSE of shooting is the target agg. IMHO it's tough to STALK an animal from a BENCH.

 

[people]

All of that stuff is good information. I also say you need to practice the way you are going to hunt.

With that being said out here in ND there are lots of times you can not sneak close enough for some hunters. Heck where I hunt you can see more than 10 to 15 miles in most directions. So even with a M198 you would be able to see your impacts most of the time. The hills are so smooth and rolling they are literally over 1,000yds from peak to peak. There are few deer to find and very little cover for them. The last three years I have been hunting with a friend who has been using a 243Win and for the last three years he has had to use my rifle to take the shot to get his deer. Some places getting close is needed for some hunters but most shooters do not need to get close.

I went to NE hunting 4 years ago and had 5 tags I fired 5 shots in less than one min and had 5 deer to gut. Not a single shot was taken over 175yds. The five shots fired there was three head shots and only two body hits a buck and a doe that was running full speed were the only body shots. There is no challenge to it. It was literally easier than shooting Prairie Dogs.

 

[Rustystud]

Cliffy:

A few years ago I would have agreed with you. But shooting long distance has changed for me since I began shooting 600-1000 competition. I would agree with the average rifle one should limit themself to 350-400 yards. However with the right equipment and right bullets there is no reason an ethical shot can not be made to 1000 yrds. Deer have become a problem here in North Carolina. Both seasons and bag limits have become very liberal. I shoot deer like I use to shoot ground hogs with the exception I or someone eats the deer that are shot. I hunt properties with depredation permits. This weekend I may actually shoot a dozen deer testing bullets. I build several bean field rifles every year for others who think long distance shooting is just as thrilling as stalking. I would venture to say there are fewer deer woulded and lost by experienced long distance shooters as there are by inexperienced short range shooters.

Nat Lambeth

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Well stated Nat! Been a pleasure reading this. Thanks, Mike

 

[CJ6]

I guess I'm trying to express the differences between shooting and hunting . Not the ethical aspects of a long range shot.

 

[Rustystud]

I cut out a deer effogie in plywood. painted the same color as a deer. Then attached some legs of conduit. I have placed this mobile deer target at unmarked distances. I have climbed into the box stand and shot off sand bags hundreds of practice shots some time using a laser range finder and some not. At 100 yards I am shooting sub .25" groups. 200 yards I am shooting sub .7" groups usually better. I am shooting sub 1.5" groups at 300 yard usually less than 1.0" I am shooting 2.0" or better at 400 yards. I am shooting 3.5" groups or better at 500 yards.
I am shooting 5." or less groups at 600 usually about 3." As shown groups (10 shots) grow with distance. It is not uncommon to shoot 10 inch groups or better at 1000 yards. This is being done with a 21 pound rifle and a 12 X 42 scope. The loads are shooting less than 9 feet ES. They are starting a 3000 fps and at 1000 yards are still traveling over 1400 fps with a 185 grain bullet.
I have shot deer that dropped in their tracks at 900- 1000 yards. I have shot deer with a heart lung pass through and the never stop eating (as if missed) and after about 15-20 seconds just start staggering and fall over. Watching through the scope reveals blood pouring out of the animal. I have had them run all out for about 10 seconds then just crash.

I have shot deer at 10 feet with a 180 grain Nosler Partition through the heart/lungs and they run 100 yards wide open.

The ethics and sportsmanship in shooting long range comes with doing your homework and making the best shoots possible. I get no pleasure making or watching and animal die an excruiating death.

Nat Lambeth

 

[CJ6]

What I'm saying is a the LONG shot is not HUNTING it's SHOOTING. IMHO there is a difference . That's not to say it isn't done cleanly/humanely I just don't call it hunting . For instance you SHOOT PDs ,You HUNT (or should)squirrels ,deer, moose, elk etc.This is just 1 mans opinion . Nat I do respect your abilities in this area so don't misunderstand my posting.

 

[SEB-USA]

So, at what distance does it become hunting and not shooting?
And with what kind of a rifle does it become hunting not shooting at this prescribed distance?
Or from what kind of position does it cease to become hunting?
For some people, 200 yards is a long shot with a rifle?

 

[CJ6]

It's not so much the distance /rifle combo .It's the lack of woodscraft/stalking that I believe is so much part of the hunt that makes hunting, well hunting. The markmanship of a well placed shot is a needed skill,(at any range)but so is the woodscraft.I have hunted Mn IA SD WY Mont Ak NM BC and Africa. To me the challenge of getting as close as possible is a major part of the hunting experiance. Limiting the experiance to just 1 aspect of it (no disrespect intended) lessens the experiance. Culling a herd for whatever reason (pop,disease,etc.)is sometimes nescessary, I have been involved in such cases with predetors and deer so I understand that aspect...........XPHunter I know a few people that 50yds is a long shot(have a hard time hitting a 4x8 sheet of plywood)

 

[SEB-USA]

Roger,
No doubt on the 50 yard comment.

"It's the lack of woodscraft/stalking that I believe is so much part of the hunt that makes hunting, well hunting."

I have no doubt that your statement is true for you and for others reading this thread. Just because that is your definition of hunting does not mean is it "The definition of hunting."
Others who bowhunt with a longbow may be tempted to use your logic and say, the true hunting experience or the only true hunting experience is "XYZ."

I rarely use a centerfire rifle (don't even own one), because they were boring to me.
The drive for LR hunting with specialty handguns is about personal preference and personal enjoyment.
Pretty much for some (not all) of the same reasons why you enjoy rifles or the other weapons you hunt with.
You choose to hunt with what you prefer and the way you prefer, because that is what you enjoy.
It is also about developing skills and a systems approach in field shooting (sometimes close and at other times far away).

Last year I took all of my animals under 250 yards with Specialty Pistol's (XP-100 & a MOA Maximum) and I took and mule deer and an antelope with FA 454 under 50 yards, but I did more practicing at 200 yards with the revolver.

I bow hunt on occasion and prefer spot-n-stalk antelope or deer hunting with a bow (not ground blinds or tree blinds).
Why? Because it is the way I enjoy hunting with a bow.

My drive is just more out-of-the-box than most, but I take it as seriously or more seriously than most.
I have had people try to get me into black powder hunting, but it just does not trip my trigger. But I know it some hunter's favorite way to hunt, and they approach it with a passion."

I have always wondered at what distance, hunting becomes "harvesting or shooting?"
It is discussed a lot, but there is a lot of disparity of what that golden distance is.
IMO-It is usually dependent upon that person's shooting ability or a preconceived distance that they heard from someone they respect (parent, mentor or author).

In fact, when people have posted definitions of hunting from various dictionaries, distance is never mentioned, but a variety of styles is.

If I used my single-shot specialty handguns for ranges under 200 or under 100 yards, or for that matter under 50 yards, it would be boring.
If I have a steady rest at 300 yards or under, it is beyond boring.
That is the distance I do a lot of my load development at.
I also do some at 100 too, convenience sake and to avoid condition changes affecting the group.
I have a couple of barrels for this particular switch barrel XP-100 specialty handgun, and load development @ 100 yards with barrels was under .25" with four shot groups. The other barrel shot in the .1's (Both of these barrels were chambered by McGowen Barrel's).
If I have a barrel that will not hold 1/4MOA or better, I will not keep it. In fact, I recently had a Lawton barrel I sent back for a new one because it did not shoot good enough. I have another one of theirs that will shoot groups at 700 yards under 4 inches in good conditions.

When I want to hunt close, I will grab my revolver (under 200 yards)or my bow (under 50 yards).
If I only hunt for the meat, it would be simpler and cheaper for me to go to the grocery store.
I hunt because I want to, and enjoy it.

With all of that being said, I do not encourage people to shoot beyond their ability, their guns ability or that combo combined with the conditions of the moment.

There are aspects of LR hunting which is very challenging, maybe more challenging than a lot o stalks.
It sounds like you like the challenge of the stalk-Nothing wrong with that.
I hunt that way myself sometimes.
There are also some odd-ducks that like the challenge of the LR Hunting from field positions.
We do not attempt to lessen other folks styles, we just enjoy and share the enjoyment of those who are willing to consider it.

Ernie B.

 

[CJ6]

Ernie, I can agree with what you have said .It's ONLY 1 mans definition (Mine) and meant no disrespect as I said. What I disagreed with Nat about was his definition and was voiceing my opinion ( just as he was his ) We can agree to disagree (I hope). This was a gentlemans discussion wasn't it ? BTW my local deer hunting is done with a pair of XPs 1 in 6.5 IHMSA the other is 6.5 x 47 (6.5x222mag) both with peep sights...Roger T

 

[SEB-USA]

Ernie, I can agree with what you have said .It's ONLY 1 mans definition (Mine) and meant no disrespect as I said. What I disagreed with Nat about was his definition and was voicing my opinion ( just as he was his ) We can agree to disagree (I hope). This was a gentleman's discussion wasn't it ? BTW my local deer hunting is done with a pair of XPs 1 in 6.5 IHMSA the other is 6.5 x 47 (6.5x222mag)...Roger T

Roger,
I hope this has been a respectful discussion. I try to be respectful when giving an opinion.
It is through respecting each other and considering the words of others, that we learn and understand others better. When you cannot see the body language and hear the tone of voice, it is easy to misunderstand the intentions of other and also misunderstand what people are writing to you.

Good to see you like the XP's too! That is where I get my user name- I hunt with XP's, hence xphunter.
Most of my XP's have a larger case capacity, simply so they can fulfill the tasks I use them for: couple of 1k matches, field and tactical matches, LR varminting and hunting. I enjoy the challenge of using specialty handguns for what most would use rifles for.
Chambering for my XP's (several have pinned lugs and are switch barrels): 6x47 Lapua, 243 Win, 6-284, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5-284's, 7mm Dakota and 338 AX (338 Lapua Improved).

 

[CJ6]

7mm dak 338 ax ,Do wear steel wrist braces ?LOL . A few rounds with my DE 50AEs or 500/460SWs will put my wrists in a coma for a couple days (They only get shot when somebody new wants to try'em). What does the 338 weigh ? Any way discussion is good for all. That is what these forums are for discussion of opinions and methods I hope.

 

[SEB-USA]

7mm dak 338 ax ,Do wear steel wrist braces ?LOL .

No, and I use high magnification rifle scopes to boot ;D I use superb muzzle brakes-Holland's new Radial muzzle brake on most of my specialty handguns and on the 338AX it will have the 5-Port Pain Killer (PK) Brake, made by Kirby Allen APS
Almost see a full field of view with the 7mm Dakota with the 200 grain wildcats or the 180 Berger on 20x. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f73/holland-radial-muzzle-brake-xp-100-handgun-36059/
The 7mm Dakota XP is around 9 pounds.
The 338AX should be in my hands late next week or early the following one.