Hi all - new to this site and this is my first thread. I've handloaded many years for pistol but only recently have I started reloading for a bottle neck rifle caliber. I have a browning A-bolt in 25-06, with a 24" barrel,not a heavy barrel). I have been looking for an accurate loading for the 85gr Nosler and I just can't get there. I have used IMR4831, H4831sc and H4350 for powders. H4831sc shows the most promise with H4350 definitely not an option,best group was 2.5" IIRC). So far, 57.8gr, 56.2gr and 56.6gr have shot .8MOA but I haven't been able to repeat the results. I'm loading .020" off the lands with a firm crimp. Cases are neck sized with a fresh trim. Either I have an issue with barrel heating and foul up or I can't find a load that tolerates these changes very well. Should I clean my barrel between shots? Should I wait longer than 5 minutes between shots for the heat to dissipate? Any advice is much appreciated.
Need help finding an ACCURATE 25-06 load for an 85gr bullet.
- Thread starter Jumper
- Start date
Sounds like crimping may be your problem, at least in large part. Crimping degrades accuracy, and should never be done for bullets that don't have a cannelure in them. There are some smart guys on this forum who can give you the technical rationale, although you might want to start a new thread to ask the question.
IMR 4350 is the most accurate powder listed in the Nosler manual, and my Savage shoots 85g Noslers like they are on a string. However - different rifles, different tastes. Another powder may end up as "best" for your rifle.
.020 off the lands is a good starting point; may need to be tweaked when you can get decent repeatable groups.
You don't need to clean between shots,counterproductive, in fact) and 5 minutes between shots is good. The only thing you mention which is inconsistent is crimping. My reloading books say "no".
Agree with the above post; start over without crimping; I'll bet your results improve immediately.
IMR 4350 is the most accurate powder listed in the Nosler manual, and my Savage shoots 85g Noslers like they are on a string. However - different rifles, different tastes. Another powder may end up as "best" for your rifle.
.020 off the lands is a good starting point; may need to be tweaked when you can get decent repeatable groups.
You don't need to clean between shots,counterproductive, in fact) and 5 minutes between shots is good. The only thing you mention which is inconsistent is crimping. My reloading books say "no".
Agree with the above post; start over without crimping; I'll bet your results improve immediately.
Generally the boat-tails show better performance at longer ranges.
You may be interested in Glen Zediker's Handloading for Competition. It will answer most, if not all, of your questions. It's quite an education, especially in interpreting obtuse prose, but educational.
You may be interested in Glen Zediker's Handloading for Competition. It will answer most, if not all, of your questions. It's quite an education, especially in interpreting obtuse prose, but educational.
I got to the range today and shot 4 groups using 85gr Nosler BT, 56.2gr of H4831 sc and COL 3.220" which is a .010" jump to the lands. Starting with a clean barrel I fired 3 fouler shots,which turned out to be the best group of the day) then 4 shot groups. The first group was no crimp the following 3 were with a moderate crimp. All shots were chrono'd. Bottom line is no group was less than 1.2" with no noticeable difference between crimped and uncrimped. I've attached photos of all my targets working up to this load. All the info is written on the targets in the photos. Any feedback is appreciated because I can't get a consistent sub MOA group. Todays targets are the last link.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr25200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr21200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr18200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr17200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr16200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr25200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr21200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr18200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr17200885NoslerOCW.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/1Jumper10/Apr16200885NoslerOCW.jpg
I've not been reloading for the .25-06 long, but I don't crimp AT ALL. In fact, the only person I know of that crimps .25-06 does so with a very, VERY slow burning powder,Retumbo). I'd disregard any and all of your results until you lose the crimp.
Unless you can duplicate the crimp precisely from batch to batch, I'd think you would have pressure differentials that would play with your accuracy. I'd follow the advice that everyone is giving you, and start over.
Unless you can duplicate the crimp precisely from batch to batch, I'd think you would have pressure differentials that would play with your accuracy. I'd follow the advice that everyone is giving you, and start over.
Correction to my earlier post: Nosler manual says Reloader 19 is the most accurate powder tested with their 85g balls.
Still think you need to give up on the crimp... but another thought: My 25-06 shoots 100g and lighter balls very well, but doesn't like anything heavier that I have tried. A friend has two 25-06s; neither likes 100g or lighter, and he has tried hard to find a lighter ball either will shoot well. Maybe yours is similar?
Still think you need to give up on the crimp... but another thought: My 25-06 shoots 100g and lighter balls very well, but doesn't like anything heavier that I have tried. A friend has two 25-06s; neither likes 100g or lighter, and he has tried hard to find a lighter ball either will shoot well. Maybe yours is similar?
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Jumper, I could not get the 85g bullets to group well in my rifle. The 87g Speer with a max load of IMR 4350 was fantastic.
Now the 100g Speer Bt is unreal in my rifle with 57-58.5g of R#19
,start off at 56.0g and work up) with a Win Large rifle primer.
It sounds really strange but my SS REm 700 likes to jump .040.
Now the 100g Speer Bt is unreal in my rifle with 57-58.5g of R#19
,start off at 56.0g and work up) with a Win Large rifle primer.
It sounds really strange but my SS REm 700 likes to jump .040.
I did try some 120 bullets when I first got it and got real good accuracy with a throw together load. I was beginning to get the impression that the gun liked the heavier bullets. I think I'll pick up some Reloader 19 and try the 100gr SPEER TNT's ive got on hand. It will be a week or two...
Tried some RL-19 a couple days ago. I didn't start with a clean barrel this time. I've shot my best groups on a fouled barrel, came home cleaned the barrel until it was spotless and tripled the group size next time I shot it.
At least this trip I got fairly consistent group size. I should note that the groups were shot in "round robin" sequence. That is, I had 3 cases loaded up with each test charge. I would fire the first case of charge 1 into the first target, the first case of the second charge into the second target and work my way through the string three times until all the cases were fired and there were three shots on each target. I took my time and let the barrel cool between shots, and mostly cool at least once per string. RL-19 seems to shoot more consistently than H4831sc but it gives up about 150fps. POI was nice and flat between 54.5gr and 56.6gr. It opened way up and went higher at 57.3gr.
I kept track of where each shot printed in each group and I wrote this number beside each shot on the target. I wanted to know where my first shot, second shot etc., hit. I then connected the dots on the targets and looked for a convergence zone. I can't be for certain on this but it looks like convergence happens between groups 4 and 5. Take a look at the target pics and give me some feedback. I think I'm going to look for a load in this zone between 55.2gr and 55.9gr.
At least this trip I got fairly consistent group size. I should note that the groups were shot in "round robin" sequence. That is, I had 3 cases loaded up with each test charge. I would fire the first case of charge 1 into the first target, the first case of the second charge into the second target and work my way through the string three times until all the cases were fired and there were three shots on each target. I took my time and let the barrel cool between shots, and mostly cool at least once per string. RL-19 seems to shoot more consistently than H4831sc but it gives up about 150fps. POI was nice and flat between 54.5gr and 56.6gr. It opened way up and went higher at 57.3gr.I kept track of where each shot printed in each group and I wrote this number beside each shot on the target. I wanted to know where my first shot, second shot etc., hit. I then connected the dots on the targets and looked for a convergence zone. I can't be for certain on this but it looks like convergence happens between groups 4 and 5. Take a look at the target pics and give me some feedback. I think I'm going to look for a load in this zone between 55.2gr and 55.9gr.
Jumper- Not absolutely sure I'm following your narrative, and duplicate pictures of the targets, but group 2 and 4 both look workable to me. At this point, I would probably load more of group two with different primers, identify the primer which gives you the best group, start moving seating depth to see what effects you get. Eventually go back to adjusting powder load if necessary. Note the Nosler manual says the most accurate load is 57g of RL 19 with Fed primers, delivering 3600 fps,pretty fast for a 25-06). Personally, I think you're on the right track.
I shoot 100g Noslers with RL 19 in my Savage 112. When I was developing a load, I tried Rem, Win and Fed primers,would have tried CCI, but couldn't find them at the time). The Feds definitely gave me better results than the others.
I shoot 100g Noslers with RL 19 in my Savage 112. When I was developing a load, I tried Rem, Win and Fed primers,would have tried CCI, but couldn't find them at the time). The Feds definitely gave me better results than the others.
First off you may be asking more of your factory built Browning rifle than it is capable of producing. If it has a stock trigger there could be a lot of your problem. Most I have seen have somewhere between 3 1/2 to 5 pound triggers and you just can't shoot little tight groups with a trigger that stiff. Also the barrels on most factory rifles are ruff inside. You need a bore scope to see the difference between a factory and custom barrel. Difference is night and day. If your rifle is not glass bedded that could also cause problems. Now I am not saying that all factory barrels will not shoot well, some will but many will not. In my 25-06, Rem. 700 action, 26 inch #6 SS Shilen in a H&S Precision stock with a 2 pound trigger this varmint load shoots bug holes. 52.2 grs. IMR 4350, CCI 250, 87 gr Sierra, Remington case, OAL 3.150 average 3400 fps. This load is what I use for deer size game and is very accurate also. I have shot 3/4 inch 5 shot groups at 300 yards with this one. 49 grs. of IMR or AA 4350, CCI 250, Remington case, 117 Sierra flat base Pro-hunter, OAL 3.150 average 3000 fps. My rifle does not like BT bullets at all. I would try some flat base bullets and try different primes. My rifle seems to like CCI 250 primers best and I have tried them all. You have a very good caliber rifle, in my book it is the best deer killing round I have ever fired. 99.9% of the time it is bang flop on deer and with those 87 gr. Sierra's a groundhog looks like shooting a water balloon, very high splat factor.
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