Would this work as a good way for load developement

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by Davey Boy, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. Davey Boy

    Davey Boy

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    I have access to 7-8 different powders to use for a .223. Would selecting a safe mid range velocity of say 2875 fps using a 50 grn. bullet of my choosing, letting Quickload pick the powders and load weights for the 7 powders, based on vel. and pressure then shooting 5 shots of each powder load .

    Would the results be a good indication as to what my gun likes. Is this a viable short cut if you may to narrowing down an accurate load by using say 35 shots, as opposed to using 35 shots based on each powder (245). 100 yds 7 targets best group wins, then fine tune from there. Any one have luck with this?
     
  2. nmkid

    nmkid Gold $$ Contributor

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    WOW!! All I did was take some 55 gr. bullets and 24.8 grs. of H-335. But, we can all do what we want!
     
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  3. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

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    In theory I suppose it may work, but what if your gun does not generate the same pressures as the QL model.
    With all the info available on load combos, I'd ask and gather info, and make a choice. I don't think I've ever tried more than 3 powders on one gun. Trying 7 upfront seems futile to me. There are a lot of guys on here that can walk you through load development with a couple powders and your bullet of choice.
     
  4. PatrickH

    PatrickH

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    I've shot thousands of plinking rounds through an AR with that same load.
     
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  5. Mozella

    Mozella

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    Short answer....... nope, at least in my experience.

    I carefully log every test shot and group in a spread sheet format including details like group height, group width, deviation from aim point, mean radius, weather, and just about every other parameter you can imagine.

    I've found that a bullet may shoot well with a particular charge and a particular seating depth using powder A but it may not shoot well with powder B when you try to match the MV using QuickLoad. However, powder B may prove to be ideal using a lighter or heavier charge weight and a different seating depth.

    Sad to say, you gotta' test. You might be able to narrow the range of charge weights and seating depths over which you test based on previous experience, but if you do what you propose, you are likely to miss the optimum combination for your rifle.
     
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  6. jepp2

    jepp2 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have done something kind of similar. The difference in what I did:
    - I had a selected velocity in mind that I wanted to use (3850 fps in my 204 Ruger upper)
    - I had experience with all 5 powders I would be using in the test. So I knew how to adjust my powder Ba factors, and I had water capacity of the cases
    - I am limited by 2.260" OAL due to magazine restrictions
    - I'm working up a shorter range colony varmint killing load

    And it seemed to work for what I wanted. I have done a variation where I knew a load that worked fairly well in the rifle, so I used it with a selection of bullets weighing the same seated the same distance from the lands.

    In both cases, it allowed me to reduce the candidate pool for further load development.
     
  7. Davey Boy

    Davey Boy

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    Sounds like the chances of it working is small from opinions. So as to one load of 55 gr and 24.8 H335, how do each of you settle on a load to work on. Bullet first, then how do you go about picking your powder. What are you looking for.
    A certain Velocity A powder produces, % fill,. there are so many powders out there how do you narrow it down in choosing one. Obviously the target is the test, but getting there can use up a lot of components. Sure its fun, but gets costly too.
     
  8. dsculley

    dsculley

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    You want to simplify load development? There are certain powders and bullets that usually perform well on a particular platform. Pick a known good combination and test to see if it will shoot to your requirements. If it will you are done. No need to test the other 7 powders. Did you find the "Best" combination? Maybe not, but as long as it meets your requirements you are golden. I would much rather be shooting a "Good" load than be chasing the "Perfect" load.
     
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  9. Davey Boy

    Davey Boy

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    Is there any place to look for data on good accurate known loads, or just start with the accuracy loads in the manual, I have 3 plus several online ones.
     
  10. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

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    Why miss all the fun of testing? Gather 5 or eight “good” powders. Then buy 2-300 bullets in each of 5 or six different weights from 3 or 4 different companies and start testing! By the time you’re done, your barrel will be toast and you’ll have to start over with a new barrel! It’s more fun than golf! :rolleyes:.....and my wife calls me crazy?:D
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  11. alinwa

    alinwa

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    I'm sorry Davey Boy but I'm gonna' go against EVER'body here....... except you :)

    Ain't NO SCIENCE here. Your idea'r is a fine one, I say "Good Thinkin'" :) and I think you've got just as good a chance as anyone of finding a solid platform from which to build your loads....

    I've never tried it.

    I probably never will...

    But I shore ain't got no opinion AGAINST it!

    Here's my advice, the real reason I've posted and IMO the single most important thing you can do re "working up loads".

    TAKE LOTS OF NOTES!!

    Write down EVERYTHING from primer to weather to what color undershorts and fuh'GEDDABOUT science for a bit. Look for trends. I use $0.29 ringbound notebooks I buy in bundles from the Back To School sales and just WRITE STUFF DOWN. Don't try to figger it out. Don't buy into some other guy's "Range Data Acquisition Spreadsheet" mindset...... just write stuff down and bumble along having fun. Sooner or later you'll trip over an acorn and make a mighty pine tree grow


    or something like that

    Be Safe
     
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  12. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC Silver $$ Contributor

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    Since you have Quick Load let it select powders and charge weights targeting barrel time, using the Chris Long Optimum Barrel Time based on your barrel length. OBT has always been very close for me based on followup ladder testing. You may want to evaluate seating depth first to assure the powder selection is not obscured by a bad depth. While Longs explanation does not suit many, the methodology sure does work for many.
     
  13. LA50SHOOTER

    LA50SHOOTER Gold $$ Contributor

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    Davey, - The 223 Rem. cartridge guide sheds a little light on this topic (http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/) and at the bottom of the web-page there's some load data to consider. - When I say consider, keep in mind that this data was compiled from other users guns. - But It can provide some powder choices to consider with bullet weights. - I realize you could be new to reloading and there has been some very good advice provided in the "taking of notes". - One thing I'd like to point out is powder burn rate with particular bullet weight. - This isn't carved in stone but you'll see progressively slower powders being used with heavier bullets.
    - If you can specify what bullet(s) your planning on shooting and what powders you have, I'm willing to bet that the guys on here can provide a bit more guidance on the direction one might want to go. - I've found the 223 to be a good caliber to load for and finding decent shooting loads isn't all that difficult. - I know that myself personally would never consider 7 powders to test regardless of how many different bullets & weights there-of I had in one caliber. - I believe 2 to 4 powders is the most I'd consider testing.

    Good Shooting - Ron -
     
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  14. dminn1

    dminn1

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    My experience with this cartridge has always seemed to lead me to H-4895 or H-Varget with the 50-55g bullets. You should be able to achieve excellent velocity, accuracy, and case fill with one of these two powders. An added bonus is very good temp stability. I have a Tikka T-3 with an 8 twist barrel that refuses to shoot a bad group with 55g Nosler ballistic tips and H-4895 with the fire started with CCI 400 primers. If you are trying to find a load with as few components as possible this might be a good place to start.
     
  15. Davey Boy

    Davey Boy

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    Thanks Alinwa for that. I too thought it might warrant more looking into. CharlieNC I do believe in the nodes that Chris Long touts and will try grouping loads to that instead of velocity. Dminn1 I have both those powders so will give them another ernest try. My twist is 1:9.
    Oh and is there anywhere a person can buy say just a sample of bullets to try as opposed to buying the whole box. We had a store here in Calgary which has since shut down and they used to sell samples of I believe 20. Guess that question is moot now that I think of it, as components are not shipped to Canada from the US.
     
  16. normmatzen

    normmatzen Gold $$ Contributor

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    CharlieNC I think is on the right track.
    QuickLoad can find the most efficient load for your rifle. at the same time you will learn more about QL!
    A lot of folks don't pay attention to Bt. Barrel time MUST agree with the linear resonance of the barrel to take advantage of the "flying donut!" Or, the node. Then see how it groups.
     
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  17. alinwa

    alinwa

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    Ho, hey.... forget what I said about the colour of the undershorts eh, I din't KNOW ya's were Cal'Garian .... but serious about those notes eh
     
  18. Webster

    Webster

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    I think I would pick the three powders that give the highest safe MV based on several loading manuals and shoot a 5 shot ladder test with each about 5-10 thou off touch. Should get you in the ballpark? Many times when I shoot a ladder test with my varmint rifle I get a 1 hole group (6BR). It's only 15 shots.

    Good info on the 223 section of this website.
    http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  19. Davey Boy

    Davey Boy

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    Yes am going to have to rely on QL using the nodes for my barrel, as a place to at least start at. I like how QL can give you a list of things as to what you are asking from it. Double checking it with my load manuals of course.
     
  20. Davey Boy

    Davey Boy

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    OK here are the QL predictions of the powders I have access to in relation to Chris Long's OBT theory. I have chosen a lower node as it stays within safe perimeters.

    CharlieNC, which say 3 powders would you choose and why? What do you look for in picking a bullet powder combo.

    And anyone else care to pick 3-4 powders along with their reasoning for their picks.





    Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)

    Bullet : .224, 55, Nosler Varmag HP 17235

    Useable Case Capaci: 28.101 grain H2O = 1.825 cm³

    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm

    Barrel Length : 22.1 inch = 562.0 mm



    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time

    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms

    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------

    IMR 3031 93.9 22.7 1.47 2893 94.8 34450 7465 1.134

    Vihtavuori N135 100.9 23.7 1.53 2870 95.9 35499 7096 1.133

    Hodgdon BL-C2 89.9 25.4 1.65 2869 89.0 35611 7462 1.133

    IMR 4895 93.7 24.3 1.57 2869 87.1 35633 462 1.133

    Hodgdon H4895 90.6 23.5 1.52 2856 88.3 36148 7271 1.133

    Winchester 748 86.4 24.1 1.56 2855 90.0 34953 7307 1.133

    Alliant Reloder-15 94.5 24.5 1.59 2855 86.2 35847 7333 1.133

    Hodgdon Varget 95.2 23.9 1.54 2794 85.9 35564 6853 1.133

    Hodgdon CFE223 88.4 25.5 1.65 2843 86.7 35106 7356 1.133

    Hodgdon H380 96.8 25.6 1.66 2841 84.2 36414 7241 1.133

    IMR 4064 96.5 23.6 1.53 2805 86.3 35850 6867 1.133

    IMR 4320 94.6 24.1 1.56 2797 85.6 35047 6917 1.133
     

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