Who named the 224 VALKYRIE cal ? What a poor name.

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by NDAR15MAN, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. NDAR15MAN

    NDAR15MAN

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    Who named the 224 Valkyrie ? That has to be the worst name ever for a new cartridge! I would say Valkyrie has a chance to fail just because of its silly name. Marty
     
  2. 'Freak

    'Freak

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    More fitting might have been an Overly Hyped Pissant.
     
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  3. drover

    drover

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    While most folks will not make the connection the literal translation of Valkyrie is Angel Of Death, not a bad name IMO.

    On the other hand my pet peeve is scope names - ex: Vortex Diamondback, Crossfire, Viper, Raxor, Copperhead.

    Or the Sig scopes - Whiskey, Tango. Some of these names make me think - WTF? Yes, I realize that the names are leaked to the phonetic alphabet but to me it just seems like a way to be on the "tacticool" bandwagon.

    drover
     
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  4. snert

    snert Gold $$ Contributor

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    I want to do my own wildcat, the 223 Doofus. Nothing special, just truth in reporting. :oops:;)
     
  5. Sniper338

    Sniper338 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Hmmm, I dont think its a bad name... beats a lot of them out there...

    Liliput
    flea
    incinerator
    madame
    sabertooth
    super pooper
    devistator
    bonecrusher
    van horn

    Theres a huge list of goofy names, go to ammoguide.com, register for free and look at the rebarrel guide... Theres hundreds of goofy names. Makes you understand valk aint to bad..
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  6. NDAR15MAN

    NDAR15MAN

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  7. NDAR15MAN

    NDAR15MAN

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    I cannot even pronounce the name of 224. I cannot believe they named it that. Maybe just me that has a problem with the name they choose. ha ha ha. Marty
     
  8. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

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    I know, Valkyrie doesn't even makes sense for a cartridge name. Referencing the Tom Cruise movie, it was supposedly it was the name of a top secret mission designed to assassinate Adolf Hitler.

    But there's a bunch of a lot of more stupid wildcat names than the Valkyrie out there. I built a 338-375 Ruger and noticed some guys had named it the "338 Camp Fire" and "338 Bearcat". So dumb :rolleyes:....
    My barrel is just stamped "338-375R"

    I always like the names Lazzeroni came up with for his cartridge designs :)
     
  9. Laurie

    Laurie

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    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For other uses, see Valkyrie (disambiguation).
    [​IMG]
    The Ride of the Valkyrs (1909) by John Charles Dollman
    In Norse mythology, a valkyrie (from Old Norse valkyrja "chooser of the slain") is one of a host of female figures who choose those who may die in battle and those who may live. Selecting among half of those who die in battle (the other half go to the goddess Freyja's afterlife field Fólkvangr), the valkyries bring their chosen to the afterlife hall of the slain, Valhalla, ruled over by the god Odin. There, the deceased warriors become einherjar(Old Norse "single (or once) fighters"[1]). When the einherjar are not preparing for the events of Ragnarök, the valkyries bear them mead. Valkyries also appear as lovers of heroes and other mortals, where they are sometimes described as the daughters of royalty, sometimes accompanied by ravens and sometimes connected to swans or horses.

    Famous bit of Wagner music is the connection most Europeans have with the name



    I'm sure it'll ring a bell as we say in the UK. If you wonder where ........



    If death dealing flying Valkyries are good enough for Francis Ford Coppola and Lt. Col Bill Kilgore ("Ah do so luvv the smell of napalm in thah marning") not to mention a certain dead psychopathic dictator (A. Hitler was a great Richard Wagner fan) it's surely good enough for a poxy Nosler cartridge! :) :)

    Actually, I take that back - I have a friend who is a well known UK gunsmith and rifle builder, his one-man outfit called Valkyrie Rifles. Naturally he has to have a 224 Valkyrie and is in the process of building one now and reforming 6.8 SPC brass. It'll be the first over here, but not I believe the last.
     
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  10. Laurie

    Laurie

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    On reflection, Old Norse mythology seems to attract cartridge designers - Bill Alexander is another what with his Beowulf and Grendel.
     
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  11. 'Freak

    'Freak

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    Yup ... Overly Hyped Pissant

    upload_2018-2-10_15-57-53.jpeg

    &&

    upload_2018-2-10_15-59-44.jpeg

    &&

    upload_2018-2-10_16-24-48.jpeg
     
  12. FatBoy

    FatBoy

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    Happy days when this is the kind of stuff we have to bitch about.
     
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  13. Laurie

    Laurie

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    The comparative drop figures as posted by 'Freak tell you nothing of much use unless you are a tactical shooter or similar who shoots at unknown distances where rangefinders aren't allowed and as flat a trajectory as possible is desired.

    For most long-range shooters, far more important factors are retained velocity (to stay above trans and sub sonic levels) and wind drift. A heavy, high BC, but slower starting bullet has more drop than an equivalent lightweight model shot at a higher MV, but at maximum effective range is travelling faster and is moved less in the wind. Hence in FTR, 223 Rem shooters use 80gn or heavier models, 90s pretty well essential at 800 yards and beyond; 308 Win F/TR in high level competition where handloads and any bullet weights are allowed is dominated by 185 to 215 gn bullets. Compare their drops to a 155 and if that alone mattered, everybody would shoot the latter. Compare their movement in wind and whether they achieve the essential >1.2 MACH speed at 1,000 and beyond and the 200/215 wins hands down.

    Nosler has designed a cartridge with a longer case than 223 for use in AR platform rifles - a pretty dumb thing to do when it comes to actual utility. It restricts the cartridge to light bullets and reduces case capacity with the heavier models as factory loaded within a 2.26" COAL, the shanks and bullet bases ending up deep inside below the shoulder. Sure the resulting MV figures look good .... and that's what sells rifles and cartridges to people who don't know any better.

    For any keen long-range shooter, the Valkyrie is a much superior design because it has been built around an efficient long-range bullet, the 90gn SMK. Federal has sensibly reduced the case-length compared to that of the 223 which allows it to seat the 90gn bullet properly and still obtain sufficient MV from the fatter than 223 case-body.

    What we don't know until we get feedback from real world users on the pair is firstly how well they really perform at distance, and just as important how strong their case-heads are. If they're weak that's going to constrain usable loads and pressures - less of an issue as long as users see them only as AR-15 cartridges, but potentially a deal maker or breaker when adapted for bolt rifles. The Nosler's rebated form in order to retain the 223 Rem case-head and rim arrangement looks a bit dubious IMO. (If nothing else, it'll make brass and ammo inevitably expensive for what is a one-off head forming job. Mind you, that's nothing new with Nosler which apparently considers itself a purveyor of sporting firearms and cartridges to the gentry, rather in the same fashion as the old English rifle and ammunition makers like Rigby and Holland & Holland.)
     
  14. yotehater

    yotehater Silver $$ Contributor

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    It reminds me of that big honking motorcycle Honda produced.

    The Honda Valkyrie was manufactured by Honda from 1996 to 2003.
     
  15. Bill K

    Bill K

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    It is like many things in life. If you want and like it buy it. If you don't then don't, but do not fault the other person, for what they like and want or need. Let's all enjoy what we have, can have and just roll on. Bill K
     
  16. jds holler

    jds holler Gold $$ Contributor

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    I'm with you bud. I'm not after the latest, greatest, flattest, furthest, killinist, round ever invented. How about a truthful 3000 fps, with good accuracy and long barrel life. I propose the 22 Dweeb. jd
     
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  17. 'Freak

    'Freak

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    Nosler's stated MV fer the factory loaded 22 Nosler with an 85 grain RDF bullet seated to fit AR magazine length is 2750 fps.

    The 85 grain RDF bullet's length is 1.135”, G1 BC is .498, G7 BC is .245, and Nosler's test barrel is a 24” one in eight twist.

    With a cartridge OAL of 2.260” that’s gonna leave .390”of an 85gr RDF bullet’s length seated below the neck-shoulder junction, occupying go powder space.

    From Nosler load data the quickest “Most accurate load tested” for the 85 grain RDF bullet was from using the listed MAX load of 30.5 grains of RL-16 good for 2889 fps.

    The quickest load listed, period, was from using the MAX load of 31.0 grains of RL-17 good enuf fer 2913 fps.

    Single loading both rounds and assuming enough freebore to allow seating the bullets’ base above the neck-shoulder junction frees up that much more space for go powder, but more so for the 22 Nosler even further increasing its velocity, etc., advantage over the way too much overly media hyped 224 Pissant. .:D.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  18. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

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    Granted it may be over-hyped, but anyone can make a cartridge using the same caliber bullets look bad by throwing different bullets between the cases for the data. Gotta compare apples to apples. Take all three of those 22 caliber rounds and place the same make and weight bullet in them. Otherwise it's a useless comparison of cartridge performance.

    Notice how the Valkyrie has the heaviest bullet in all the comparisons and how the max yardage listed varies in each chart??? The heavier bullet in the Valkyrie may have a higher BC, but it takes a very long distance for BC to overcome lost velocity against lighter bullets. That is probably why they stopped at ll the yardages they did. So of course it looks bad compared to the other 2 cartrdiges....

    The 22 Nosler probably is a faster round, but those charts are falsely exaggerating the performance difference .

    It's kind of like watching the news. If you believe everything you see on the TV and never research the facts, you'll be duped into believing anything they want ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  19. 'Freak

    'Freak

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    Both bunches are now using the same BS marketing tactics, picking from available factory loaded rounds, “close” but still not the same.

    And yup, I’ve been hoping for side by side comparisons where both use the same bullets fired from barrels of the same length and twist, all ‘roll your own’ optimum loads, one seated to AR magazine length, and then another worked up with bullets seated out to wherever they wanna be, and single loaded. Like's done in the real world ...
     
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  20. eldos1

    eldos1

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    I did a bit of modeling in Quickload software. There are some measurements for the case and now thanks to the Alliant powders load data for the Valkyrie, we know that the chamber pressure is 55,000psi MAP per SAAMI. We also know now that the roughly the back end is a 6.8 spc and the front is .223. Case length is 1.59" etc. H20 reported at 33.7gr. I ran numbers for the Valkryire on the Alliant load data and it was in the realm of the published data for the models (Nosler 60gr & Serria 90gr)

    THIS IS ROUGH DATA AT NEAR MAX PSI - DO NOT USE FOR RELOADING - disclaimer
    77 SMK at 2.260" - 20" Barrel - Alliant Reloader 15 - .362 between 2500 and 3000 fps Ballistic Coefficient. It is about the biggest we can get into the 5.56 case and a 2.260" Magazine.

    Using a 5.56x45 NATO Pressure standard 62,366 PSI Max.
    Alliant Reloader 15 - 24.7gr - 106% fill - compressed - I have never got more than a 106% compressed charge in a case and pressure spikes are crazy.
    OAL 2.26
    Max PSI 60,286
    2828 FPS


    Using the estimated Valkyire at 55,000 PSI Max SAAMI
    Alliant Reloader 15 - 27.6gr - 98% fill
    OAL 2.26
    Max PSI 54,839
    2914 FPS

    Then again, this is all just a big guess
     
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