When is a bushing sizer die needed?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by RCC1, Jul 17, 2017 at 5:24 PM.

  1. RCC1

    RCC1 Gold $$ Contributor

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    As the title states.

    I have been reloading for over 10 years and regularly shoot at ranges from 500-800 yards.

    I am in the process of finishing a new rifle and plan to start shooting farther. This site has shown me I have a lot to learn.
     
  2. Sniper338

    Sniper338 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Basically when you want to start chasing accuracy and uniform neck tension, and you fall off the deep end.
     
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  3. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

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    Any time you want to try changes in your neck tension.
     
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  4. JohnKielly

    JohnKielly Australia, not Austria

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    Although with the middle of the road calibers, it's hard to do better than use a Lee collet die adjusted according to John Valentine's recommendation.
     
  5. RCC1

    RCC1 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I use Lee collet neck sizers on all my loads now. Was curious as to if I am missing something.

    I was looking at Whiddon reloading dies and noticed they only make bushing dies for 300 WM.
     
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  6. fguffey

    fguffey

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    Before I change neck tension I want a gage that measures neck tension. I have gages that measure bullet hold, I have tension gages; problem, I do not have a tension gage that measures tension, all of my tension gages measure in pounds and or deflection in thousandths.

    F. Guffey
     
  7. RCC1

    RCC1 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I was looking at dies for 300 WM. All I see that Whiddon makes for 300 WM are bushing dies.
     
  8. Someoldguy

    Someoldguy

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    It is difficult to obtain credibility when you post contradictions within the same sentence.

    :confused:
     
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  9. wholman

    wholman

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    RCC1 you have a pm go to top of page to right and press inbox
     
  10. ShootDots

    ShootDots Gold $$ Contributor

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    Basically you have two choices. There are firms out there (i.e. Forster) that will hone out a "non-bushing" to a desired size. OR you can buy a bushing die where you change the bushing(s) out to either alleviate neck tension or increase it. Once you get into what I call "The Pursuit of Accuracy", the avenues to obtain better and better accuracy almost seems limitless. There is a plethora of gadgets, tools and literally "whatever" you can buy to gain a bit more accuracy. That is on the "case prep, bullet and powder side". You can go to extreme lengths to gain a bit more. Neck tension is but one "rung" on the accuracy ladder. However, all the accuracy "tricks" will not amount to much IF you do not have a barrel and action capable of translating all those "tricks" into accuracy reality.
     
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  11. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    Check out the Redding line of bushing dies.
     
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  12. Bart B.

    Bart B.

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    Correctly dimensioned and set up full length sizing dies have produced the most accurate long range loads since the late 1950's. Brand new belted cases have often equaled that of proper full length sized ones. Decent, new rimless bottleneck cases out perform neck only resized ones.

    All companies making match bullets use full length sizing dies testing their stuff for quality. Their best lots shoot all test groups under about 1/3 MOA in their 200 yard test ranges.

    Yes, tiny groups happen with neck only sizing. Either way produce equal size tiny groups. Biggest ones are smaller with full length sized cases.

    When the smallest groups are fired, how does one know what made them that small? Everything perfect? Or, all the variables paired up pretty much cancelling each other out? The odds favor their cancelling.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 9:29 PM
  13. Richard Coody

    Richard Coody Silver $$ Contributor

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    Well now there is another choice. Whidden makes a full length sizing die with an expander ball set with which you can adjust your neck tension.

    Bushing die proponents will tell you it is the expander ball that induces runout during the sizing process. John whidden states that standard full length sizing dies make straighter ammo than bushing dies.

    Bushing dies bring with them a list of problems i had rather not deal with.

    If you want to neck size stick with the lee collet die. That and a redding body die and you are set.

    I will stick with my full length sizing dies.
     
  14. Bart B.

    Bart B.

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    They're right. Always with uneven case shoulder and neck wall thickness spread. If walls and shoulder are uniform thick, necks are bent the least. Those balls work harden case necks the second time in the process. Once is best for case life.

    Neck only sizers don't keep case bodies perfectly aligned with their necks.
     
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  15. oldroper

    oldroper

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    I use bushing die without an expander.


    This is what John Whidden post about his dies.
    The non-bushing sizer die typically yields more concentric ammo in our experience. It also fully sizes the case neck fully to the shoulder for smoother functioning. Neck tension can only be determined by changing expander balls with the non-bushing die.
     
  16. Willie

    Willie Silver $$ Contributor

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    There are different options, as described above. FWIW, I use the bushing dies on most of my rifles because I can set the length, to a degree, of how much of neck gets sized. Having said that, I set the final neck I.D. with an expander mandrel. I cull with a pin gauge to eliminate variant cases. Just my method.
     
  17. savagedasher

    savagedasher

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    After 20 reloads I have to use a bushing die to give me enough holding on the bullet . I only use half of the neck for holding. Larry
     
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  18. Ray B

    Ray B

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    I use LE Wilson dies for most any reloading. Rather than do all the gages for neck tension, etc I just measure the neck thickness x2 + bullet diameter - .002; then I bracket the total. then start sizing with the largest. Shoot some groups then with changing the bushing to the next smaller size as the only variable, repeat. When the groups get smallest then I pick the appropriate bushing & invert it for a slightly smaller size, repeat.
     
  19. Richard Coody

    Richard Coody Silver $$ Contributor

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    Opinions vary
     
  20. joshb

    joshb Gold $$ Contributor

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    Why do you want a gauge that measures neck tension? I use my target as the "gauge". Being able to write down a " value, in ounces, pounds, etc." of neck tension seems superfluous when I can just as easily record the best bushing size, instead.
     
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