Weird behavior I can't figure out

Discussion in '6BR, 6BR Improved & Wildcats' started by Judd, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. Judd

    Judd

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    Low left condition...I've never had a barrel shoot low left in a the wind. Normally it's either high left or low right but never a low left. I've had some do it inconsistently and just scratched it off as an abnormality.

    However, this past weekend's match I shot consistently low left. The wind was mostly 1-3 o'clock on the clock and the harder it would blow on the 1-2 the further low left I would get. I am talking 2 inches @ 300y. So I attempt to try and learn things from situations like this but I cannot for the life of me figure this one out.

    Has anyone else ever seen this and actually figured it out?

    While I'm not asking specific to the caliber and barrel, I will give specifics...it's a 22 dasher in a Rock 7.2 twist, running a 90 grain VLD and pushing 3,100fps. It's really shown some promise and is a blast too shoot.
     
  2. expiper

    expiper

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    if the bullet is hittin low left ,,,,hold hi right,,,,noting to it,,,Roger
     
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  3. #40Fan

    #40Fan

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    Was this a new area for you to shoot? More of a down draft wind then right to left?
     
  4. BartsBullets

    BartsBullets Gold $$ Contributor

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    Wind blowing from right to left with a right twist barrel with flags pointing at the 1,2 or 3 o’clock positions will move the bullet down and left.

    Bart
     
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  5. Judd

    Judd

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    [​IMG]
    This is the effects I've experienced in the past...I've never had a consistent low left from a 1-3 position.
     
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  6. BartsBullets

    BartsBullets Gold $$ Contributor

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    G
    Roger that! Come shoot at my house and I’ll teach you!


    Bart
     
  7. #40Fan

    #40Fan

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    Do we get to leave with a FREE 500 round box of bullets of our choice? If so, PM your address for the teaching. :D
     
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  8. pdog2225

    pdog2225

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    I saw the worst case of this when I was in the Army. I was in the the front seat of a AH-1G cobra and was learning to use the the mini-gun (7.62 x 51) using the pantographic sight. The one with two handles and a grid to aim with. At 140 knots I fired at a target on the left side and the bullets went way down and forward. The next pass the target was on the right and the bullets went way up and forward. These barrels are rifled right-hand and 26" long and the bullet speed is 2760fps. No issues when firing straight ahead! I thought I had done something wrong, but nope.
     
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  9. BartsBullets

    BartsBullets Gold $$ Contributor

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    @Judd

    Here’s a chart of what I typically see with conditions. The problem with these charts is they don’t show Bullet impacts at different speeds for the same condition.

    Lets say you catch a steady condition blowing at say 2 o’clock wind right to left blowing at 10mph. Bullets are printing nicely at 12 o’clock on the mothball and the first three shots go into one hole. Suddenly you shoot but the wind has picked up to 15mph. That shot will go out of the group down and towards the left at the 8 o’clock position! By the time you load the gun and fire the wind has changed to 5 mph. That bullet will go up and out of the group at 2 o’clock. So the same condition with different intensity can make your Bullet hit low or high realative to your group.

    I watched this happen to my buddy several times this week at St. Louis. He’d have 4 in a knot and his last shot was low and left due to a pick up.

    Bart

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. rwj

    rwj Silver $$ Contributor

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    Does barrel twist direction change the POI?
     
  11. BartsBullets

    BartsBullets Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes it does effect it.
     
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  12. Judd

    Judd

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    Thanks Bart...that is the best explanation I've seen, it's not what I've experienced in the past but it makes more sense than anything I've come up with. It is also exactly what happened.

    Our game we get a 10 min sight in period to start the day...from then out every shot we take it for score...at 300y, you miss more than a couple out of 40 for score shots and you might as well pack your stuff and head to the house. Little bit different challenges from some of the group games so just holding high right isn't the right answer...well I guess it would be had I seen it and knew that is what was going to happen ;)

    Again, thanks Bart!
     
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  13. AlloyTargets

    AlloyTargets Site $$ Sponsor

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    We were blessed with very good optical conditions - especially for summertime in TX. The fact that you could see your misses gave you the the opportunity to ask this question, and hopefully, we can learn from it. So often in our game all we know is if we hit or miss the clay bird. We don't get to see targets after the fact and misses are blind - either deliberately or because of mirage. Regardless, you're memory would have to be one hell of a lot better than mine even if we did get to see our targets after each relay. Meaning, what was the condition when you took each shot & where were you aiming vs where the bullet impacted???

    While it's a lot of fun to break stuff, I'm starting to think my growth as a shooter isn't developing as well as it would if we shot more paper. Now, if we could only get some decent optical conditions for a Fly Shoot...

    Thanks for asking the Q on the forum.
     
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  14. Judd

    Judd

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    AT - I like to think that 99% of the time when I miss I know where I missed. That is the difference between the guys who shoot a lot in different conditions and guys who just show up for a match once a month and shoot. That didn't happen over nite and has taken a lot of burnt up barrels/bullets/powder to get to that point. I actually enjoy showing up to those mornings where the wind is blowing...I feel like it separates the guys who shoot a bunch versus the others. Now, obviously we still have our days...Denny and I were talking about this within the last few weeks...how do we get more consistent versus the hero or zero. Neither have a solution but I know that knowing and realizing where we miss or are going to miss is a HUGE key to that. Some days we crack that code and others we just don't even get to put the key in the lock.

    I do know exactly what was going on during the two target boards I missed targets on...it was exactly what Bart described. Now I'm sitting here scratching my head thinking my other barrels don't do that...or do they and this was just a perfect storm for me to see it. I don't know that answer but you can bet your azz I'll be looking for it again and attempt to learn something else from that experience.

    Also, FWIW....I couldn't see the last relay bullet holes in my scope...but I did get up and look through my spotting scope and could see them then. I was blown away with where they were, I would've bet a size able chunk that it was at 10-11 off the left edge...I was down around 7-8 and two inches off. CRAZY!!!!

    Another learning experience that I hopefully won't get bitten from again...time will tell.
     
  15. BartsBullets

    BartsBullets Gold $$ Contributor

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    @Judd

    Here are some examples from this weekend. The first three targets the shooter got caught by a push. The last target with one out was a let up.

    [​IMG]
    Bart
     
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  16. urbanrifleman

    urbanrifleman Silver $$ Contributor

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    I am not worthy.
     
  17. Darrel Martin

    Darrel Martin Gold $$ Contributor

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    Judd,
    Sounds like Bart's explanation is correct.We were certainly getting periods of 1-2 o'clock wind, and I felt like I only figured out the 3 o'clock pushes.I would try and twiddle my thumbs when it turned toward me.
     
  18. kountryboy2

    kountryboy2

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    Was that Dusty's target @ the east-west?
     
  19. waybones

    waybones Silver $$ Contributor

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    Judd,

    Ask Chris!! Evidently he figured it out :) ... I'm with Darrel on this one....the 3 o'clock pushes were more favorable for me.
     
  20. Ac guy

    Ac guy

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    Well, I my flag at 200 would spin directly at us while my 100 yard flag would stay pointing at 8:30 or 9 . So I only shot when both flags were same position . I would guess to say there was a swirl that comes up that draw behind the 100 YD berm .
     
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