Truly accurate ar15

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by matthias, Apr 5, 2020.

  1. butchlambert

    butchlambert Site $$ Sponsor

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    Maybe Bamban on this forum will join in. He builds some of the best service rifles. Yes, he is a Presidents 100 shooter.
    John Holliger "White Oak Armament" built my service rifle. Yes it is accurate. John has built 3 for my Sons and Grandsons, but are mainly used as tincan shooters.
     
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  2. rsmithsr50

    rsmithsr50

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    OK BUT I THOUGH THE SUBJECT WAS ACCURATE AR'S ?
    a 2 moa 10 ring is NOT accuracy in my book.
    YES in their field they are good, esp when compared yo rack grade/commercial rifles.
     
  3. 300_whisper

    300_whisper Silver $$ Contributor

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    what?
     
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  4. butchlambert

    butchlambert Site $$ Sponsor

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    Smitty, are you speaking of ours?
     
  5. rsmithsr50

    rsmithsr50

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    lost me butch.
    I built service/match ar's for close to 20 year
    3 gun ar's. pd ar's
    and a few dedicated target ar's
     
  6. butchlambert

    butchlambert Site $$ Sponsor

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    Lost you?? I just asked if you were speaking of our family tincan shooters.
     
  7. johnfred1965

    johnfred1965

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    I went the economy route. A Model1sales 24 inch varmint kit, with the only upgrade being a tuned RRA trigger. This was a killer PD rifle. While it will produce some screamer groups, I thought the best test I did with it was using up some old reloads. 55BK on winchester brass, 20 rounds under one inch at 100. In the PD fields, I would often go over 200 rounds a day without a hiccup, and we only cleaned at the end of the day.
     
  8. Cemetery21

    Cemetery21 NRA Life since 1975 Gold $$ Contributor

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    question 1- what is your rifle actually capable of in your hands on a regular day, not the wallet group best day.

    Of the ARs I shoot most, I've had 5 that were consistent 3/4" shooters at 100 yds. (better when I have a good day). I don't have regular access to a longer range. I work up loads there and verify zero, but the rifles were used on reactive targets where I couldn't measure a group, but was very satisfied.

    question 2- how and what was used in assembly and reloading of your rifle? ( a guideline if you will)

    I don't much care for the brand of the lower/upper. I have JP, S&W, RR and even an old stainless steel DPMS lower. I care about the trigger and barrel. I used JP triggers about from the beginning. I had an adjustable Jard that did well. I like the 3 lb Timney's. There are lots of good triggers out there and I only tried a few (single stage since I grew up on bolts and never spent the time to get used to a 2-stage) and I don't spend big bucks.

    Same for barrels - I have not spent big bucks. I've had White oak, Wilson, Blackhole polygonal, a turned down Shilen blank and a couple of tight 223 chambered DPMSs, all in 24" or longer stainless bulls, slow twist since I shoot light bullets. I true the face of the upper, use clamp on adjustable gas blocks, smooth vented free float handguards, A2 stocks with 3 lb lead weights and sling loop cut off, slick side uppers (a little thicker walls and no forward assist) and I debur the feed ramp and locking lugs to save brass. Always use a brass catcher. I've had 223, 223AI, and 20P (the most fun).

    Nothing special on loads. Always start with new brass for each rifle, one brand and never mixed with another rifle (except the two 223AIs - they were so identical that brass/loads were interchangable). Brass sorted by weight, dies set up for .001 - .002 setback (I always ran from the magazine), anneal every other firing. Ball powder since I drop charge and load 3000+ per trip, usually AA or Ramshot, mostly Hornady V-Max bullets, Forster BR seating die.

    question 3- is it really a useful rifle or is it to fussy to keep going, like a race car more maintenance than driving?

    So reliable a caveman could run it. I use Colt or Magpul 20 round mags since I'm always on a bench. I only load 10 and only one mag to force myself to slooooow dowwwwwn. I thought the AI would have feeding issues, but they ran slick. I'd clean the barrels about every 200 rounds if I got a break and only clean the bolt groups when I got home (500-700 rounds per rifle). The only breakdown I ever had (in 35+ years) was a trigger group. It had a lot of mileage and the maker told me it was their first design and they happily replaced it with their improved version (thanks JP). But, since uppers/lowers are interchangable and I always take at least two, I kept shooting.

    Now, I'll say my 3 favorite rifles of all time are bolt guns, and I always take and use bolt guns (single shots).
     

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  9. johara1

    johara1

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    Maybe my CLE and space gun upper at 100 yds. will shoot in .3 for 5 shots from a bipod off the bench would be considered. LC 04 cases, 77 SMK with 8208 XBR and out of the magazine to boot.... jim
     
  10. Bugs

    Bugs Gold $$ Contributor

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    I knew (and know) virtually nothing about AR's so I bought a Rock River varmint in 2008, right after obama got elected. Threw (and I do mean threw) together some ammo using LC brass, surplus Privi 55 grain bullets, a case full of thrown benchmark charges and CCI primers loaded to magazine length. That rifle shoots this junk ammo into 3/4" quite regularly. I shudder to think how it would shoot if I took the time to load good ammo for it.
     
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  11. tomswede

    tomswede

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    Yes, yours hardly qualifies, a single shot rifle that only shoots light bullets at short range, an AR?
    Service and match rifle shooters need a .5-.75 MOA rifle to be competitive and most are with uppers built by White Oak and others.
    Mine does that with a Krieger 7.7 twist barrel and a Wylde chamber from White Oak. Mates to a billet upper with a side charging handle.
     
  12. rsmithsr50

    rsmithsr50

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    actually this ar , I had frank do the bbl and bill wylde helped with the reamer specs...yes that wylde!
    ( before I got my lathe)
     
  13. johara1

    johara1

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    He knows what he is doing, and an AR will hammer. ...... jim
     
  14. rsmithsr50

    rsmithsr50

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    you are entitled yo an opinion, but lets be truthful. the ammo used in a service rifle for your matches WILL NOT LOAD FROM A MAGAZINE.
    no one is issued a hard back shooting coat in the field.
    issue 55/62 gr mil ammo WILL not compete.
    so you barely have an ar also.
    accurate rifles evolve from production/common rifles.
    the benchrest rifles of today have almost nothing in common with hunting rifles of today, but they are where we started.
    a gi m16 has little in common with a service rifle other than the "profile". my ar target rifle is just a step ahead of your rifles.
    mine do have gas systems. so your comment on single shot is wrong, I use a nag when pd shooting, but a SLED (JUST LIKE YOU DO) FOR SINGLE SHOT.
     
  15. 300_whisper

    300_whisper Silver $$ Contributor

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    Just a friendly reminder from the OP.
     
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  16. tomswede

    tomswede

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    Some truth to that but 40 of an 80 shot match in service/match rifle have to be mag loaded. It also has to work to 300 while 600 has to be single loaded.
    Since highpower shooters have to rely on sling support some of the size of the 10 ring is used up by the shooter.
    I shoot 77’s at 200 and 300 out of a mag. Everybody has to shoot ammo of a mag for 200 and 300. What does the military ammo have to do with anything?
    Think the question was what do people get out of their AR’s, implied maybe, practically.
    But your BR rifles and their standards are of course applicable everywhere you seem to think. This is an AR.
     
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  17. chkunz

    chkunz Gold $$ Contributor

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    The rapid fire stages of the National Match course are fired with ammo fired from the magazine.
     
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  18. R.Morehouse

    R.Morehouse Gold $$ Contributor

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    I had one. It was a 264LBC ( 6.5 Grendel ) with a Wilson barrel. Shooting Alexander Arms ammo Lapua brass with 123 Scenars it always held 1/3 MOA with the factory loaded ammo.......It's just something a bit different but offers great brass and IMO a superior round to the 223.

    Regards
    Rick
     
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  19. Taildrag15X

    Taildrag15X

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    The best for me are my Frank White built Compass Lake Service Rifle and a Space Gun Match Rifle.

    Both will out shoot me, it's been proven by handing them off to someone younger.

    Although I have cleaned the MR-63 many times with the Service Rifle and the MR-63FC with the Match Rifle.

    Little to no real maintenance above the norm required.
     
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  20. sawcarver

    sawcarver Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have a slow twist white oak upper on an Anderson lower that shoots .75" at 200 fairly consistantly. I'm shooting surplus brass and 55gr vmaxs over h322. Also have a 20 practical with a white oak barrel on a no name upper, handguard etc that also shoots .75" a 200 and runs like a sewing machine
     

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