Discussion in '6mm, 6.5mm, and .25 Cal (Not 6BR)' started by daniel brothers, Aug 18, 2018.
WOW, that 45 gr a beast.
I always ran H4350 which shot great, but after reading the post, picked up a can of H4831sc to try.
Hornady prepped brass--BR2 primers--140 ELDM Bullet--44.5 grs H4831sc--2.805 OAL
Velocity around 2675,,fast, slow, don't care. It's accurate.
Works great in my rifle--start lower in yours, of course....
1" diamond--200 yds--5 shot
2" diamond--600 yds--5 shot, dropped 1, made it a 2" group
Now my go to powder for my 6.5cm, rifle loves it.
Thanks for the tip on the powder
What's your charge weight?
44.6gr 140 vld
44.8 140 elite hunter
Still need to confirm the 45gr with
136 scenar L.
updated post with load info
I sure am glad the Carolina Load is working for Non-Carolinians...LOL.
What a weird thread. People in this thread seem almost surprised that you can shoot small 3 round groups with a 6.5 Creedmoor and that H4831 is some sort of magical powder that makes it happen.
Lots of potentially great loads in 6.5 creedmoor, with different powders and bullets. 44.3 grains of H4831 isn't some sort of magic load - and from people are seeing here, it works in barrels, doesn't work in others.
I personally find that 2830 fps is the sweet spot with 140's. My 140 load shoots 1/4-1/3 MOA 5 shot groups, with an SD of 5 or less. But I use H4350. No magic there - just proper load development.
Lots of great powders and bullets for 6.5 creedmoor, my only suggestion is to not use RDF's and you should be able to find a great load Every gun and barrel is different, and there is no magic load that will work in every gun. The OP got lucky that someone else's load happened to work in his rifle. If you want to optimize a load for your gun, you need to do load development. Achieving a cloverleaf at 100 yards with 3 rounds is pretty easy to accomplish with the most basic of load development.
Its not just one guy that has had good luck with this load but i agree with the rest. With this particular load you can start here and see if you can make it better. I felt no need since its shot fantastic groups in 6 or 7 rifles now just for me with no further development needed
Since were talking Creedmoor I'm assuming most of the rifles having success in this thread with the load are factory guns. The 1/4 moa you mentioned isn't that easy to find, and certainly not a given with a factory rifle in my opinion. I'd be interested in what proper load development your applying to get there easily. Development has given me a few head scratching moments this yr, so easy sounds .... easier. Feel free to post some development target pics, as well as the 1/4 moa 5 shot groups you ended up with .
I'm With @grovey on this one.
My rifle started out life as a $400 POS.
Hell it's still a POS, but she shoots!!!
Funny, that's also a common accuracy load for 260Rem with 140s. It's my fire forming load for my 260AI and shoots in the 1's occasionally, but averages around the .25-.3 mark for several hundred rounds and groups. I shoot standard H4831, can be tough getting enough in the case at times, though!
Since this post is about unusual powders folks have used in the Creedmoor my main load for several years started out as a load for grand kids to shoot stuff with. Load is AR Comp with a 120-123gr bullet. Killed hundreds(180 past 12 months) of hogs a few deer and one elk at 420 yards and a Antelope at 1153yd. Not the fastest but low recoil and very consistent.
I think I started using this load in 2008 after playing with several other powders as H4350 was hard to come by then.
I meant to say 1/3 to 1/2 MOA. Though it has produced 1/4 MOA groups or better. I don't usually keep targets, and rarely take pictures of them unless they are really special. I usually don't post group photos on the internet as I don't ever seek confirmation.
But since you are calling me out on it, here is a 1/10 MOA 5 shot group shot at 100 yards, shot prone off of concrete with a bipod and rear bag. Shot with fireforming loads with my 6BRA, with the only load development done being bullet seating and a simple velocity ladder to make sure I wasn't loading rounds in a high pressure zone.
I also have some bullet seating test pictures of my 6.5 creedmoor (I generally shoot only 3 round groups for testing bullet seating depths) that are similar in size to the one below. Would have to do a lot of digging through my phone to find them.
Glad to hear that your factory rifles are shooting well with this so called "secret sauce load".
For load development, I first do bullet seating depth tests, seating rounds in groups of 3 in increments of 0.005", I shot berger hybrids in all my cartridges, and those bullets like anywhere from 0.005" to 0.020" from the lands, so I generally test in that range. From there I will do a basically ladder velocity test, to see general velocity trends and pressure (ladders are in 0.2 grain increments). From there, I'll load up 5 rounds of each 0.2 grain charge that I want to test, to see what produces the most consistent velocities (lowest ES and SD).
The general outcome is a round that is easily capable of 1/3-1/2 MOA (and better) with an SD of 5 or less.
Excellent post, great shooting !
Thanks for the follow up.
The secret sauce varies from rifle to rifle, and bullet to bullet.
I think the original intent was to provide load to give great accuracy with minimal effort.
I can say it's not the fastest horse in the stable, but she does finish well.
Nice shooting. I may of called you out a little on the 1/4 moa because I thought we were talking factory guns, but honestly wanted to see your easy development process. Perhaps seeing how you read your development targets to get to the 1/4 moa level would get me off the chrono fence. Are your flat spots in velocity showing up flat on paper as well, and at what distance?
That's fair, and I didn't mean to come across as being a complete nay-sayer. You can throw 42.0-42.5 grains of H4350 in a 6.5 Creedmoor and probably have pretty good success as well, but at the end of the day, you are probably still going to have to do some tweaking to otpimize it to your rifle. Bullet seating depth, bullet type, primer type, etc.
It sounds like at least it's a fairly good starting point for people who are loading 6.5 creedmoor with that powder, and that I can appreciate.
It's what got me my "Necklace" ...
That's been awhile ago, now anything I shoot
is like that...OH the JOY...
I don't believe in "flat spots" or so-called velocity nodes on ladders, which some people propose doing through the so-called "Satterlee method". I used to do that and look for so called velocity nodes earlier on in my reloading, as it seemed like an easy and convenient way to do load testing. That method would produce so-so SD's - SD's that you could get away with (~10), but nothing impressive. I decided to do some experimenting and started loading up two sets of identical ladders, and I found that there was real inconsistency between two identical ladders in charge weight. I've tested it numerous times over 6BRA, 6.5 Creedmoor, .300NM - it just doesn't work. It's too small of a sample size to be considered statistically relevant.
I now just use a velocity ladder to find out where pressure starts, and have an idea of what velocities I get per charge weight. With my experience with 6.5 creedmoors, I know that 140 weight bullets like to be around ~2830 fps out of a 24" barrel. I will load up groups of 5 shots of 0.2 grain increments of powder around that 2830 fps, and will find out which load from there has the lowest ES/SD.
I'm shooting field disciplines such as PRS, so my criteria for precision versus someone who is going for a 1,000 yard benchrest record are different. My loads shoot great at distance for what I do, but I'm shooting steel targets out to distance and not paper targets for group size at 1,000 yards. I have 100% confidence in my loads, but that said I probably wouldn't beat Bart Sauter in a group size competition haha. So what may work for me may not work for you.
For what it’s worth . . .
RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor
Starline LR brass
Federal GM210M primers
Nosler Custom Comp 140gr bullets
Seated 0.010” off lands.
3 shots per group (all I had for testing)
Conditions: 94F, 29.56inHg, 39%RH, DA 2885’
Shot at 100 yards from a bench with rail mounted bipod.
Powder charge below group, N is for Nosler, group size written above group.
Where you gonna go from here?
Charge? Seating depth?
Nice intro for your 1st post.
Separate names with a comma.