The random quality of H4895

Discussion in '6BR, 6BR Improved & Wildcats' started by Curious, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. Curious

    Curious

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    Ive read this written a couple of times now written by Alex.

    To be honest this blows my mind and leaves me feeling like H4895 should be the last powder anyone should really be using in their 6BRA, or any other caliber for that matter?

    Think of the difficulties this level of inconsistency could cause?

    Ive seen plenty of examples of batch to batch variation in a powder but never to the extent one batch could be accurate and another not, that really leaves me scratching my head?
     
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  2. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    More records have been set with H4895 then all the others combined in the BRA and many fell with it in the dasher too. But there are lots out there that shoot BIG. Varget is the same way. I had a barrel that loved an old lot of Varget, could not tune a new lot to save my ass. If your struggling to tune a rifle, change things its that simple.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  3. dmoran

    dmoran Gold $$ Contributor

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    Ran into some major lot variation from 4 separate lots of Varget years ago, that forced me to abort it. It left such a bad impression on me that except for some limited testing with it, I've never used it since.
    Also had a lot of H4350 one time that was hurried in accuracy and velocity (75-fps indifference).
    While no doubt all brands of powders can be subject to lot variation, Hodgdon's have been the worse for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
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  4. johara1

    johara1

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    Same experience here with with Varget also.. I have 6 different lots of H4895 that as different as day and night too. I have one new lot I can't get 2900 with. I ended up going to a distributer and opened different lots and got a pound each and tried them to get the same velocity as the old lot that shot the best. when I found one that worked, I went back up and got a bunch..... jim
     
  5. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have 10lbs of H4831sc here that will not give less than 40 ft ES in 3 different barrels with many primers and bullets. If I gave this powder to someone, they would never get a good barrel again....
     
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  6. johara1

    johara1

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    Yes, the good times are over. I found 4831 to be about 3 gr. slower than the old stuff, it's a crap shoot anymore..... jim
     
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  7. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    How many powders have you tested in the BRA?
     
  8. dedeadeye

    dedeadeye Gold $$ Contributor

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    Alex, tested the following in the BRA.
    H4895 4 lots (3 new lots junk--1 old lot 1/4 lb left good.
    Varget 1 old lot left from Dasher--good
    Rl-15 1 old lot from 1000 yard record--excellent
    8208 1 old lot from Dasher--very good in recent tests.
    I will have to revisit barrels I removed that shot poorly. Only tested with H4895. Definitely should have know better. I have always removed barrels that would not shoot in 100 rounds. Must now rethink this process as barrels, bullets and certain smiths are the best I have ever seen. The powders are now the main culprit in long range accuracy.
    Roger
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
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  9. johara1

    johara1

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    Roger, Chucky is having the same results as you and I are having. If you find a lot that works you had better stock pile it.... jim
     
  10. Curious

    Curious

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    Out of curiosity, I wonder how many 6PPC shooters struggle with different batches of N133?
     
  11. LA50SHOOTER

    LA50SHOOTER Gold $$ Contributor

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    Probably Not near as much trouble would be my guess. - I shoot several Vihta Vuori powders (N133, N135, N160, N165, 570, 24N41, 20N29) and the lot to lot consistency has been great in comparison to Hodgdon powders.

    - Ron -
     
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  12. BartsBullets

    BartsBullets

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    Curious

    It’s the same thing with 133. One year it will be slow, the next year it will be fast. We try buy as much as possible so we can learn it. I’m just now starting to run out of my 2007 lot of 133. I’d say I’ve shot close to 250 pounds of it!

    Bart
     
  13. rwj

    rwj Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thoughts on why there is so much variation between lots?
     
  14. JoeDuke

    JoeDuke Silver $$ Contributor

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    Anyone care to post the good/bad lot numbers for H4895?
     
  15. 22DASHER

    22DASHER Gold $$ Contributor

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    Here is your answer:

    As Tom stated...Just because it is bad for one does not mean it will be bad for the next. Must test it your self
     
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  16. Dans40X

    Dans40X Welder

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    It's Hodgdon Powder,they got on board re-bottling 3rd world pull down powders.

    10+ years ago several Varget lots were actually H4350.

    But it's all temperature in-sensitive.....BS.
     
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  17. Don

    Don Gold $$ Contributor

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    Going back many years my group where .308 M1A shooters. Many of us had a .308 Bolt Gun for some Matches.
    Now 99% of people used IMR or H4895 in there M1A's Always word ….

    Now having that .308 Bolt Gun one would think just load 4895 and go shot ! Wrong.

    As we came to say back then " one in ten bolt guns will shoot with 4895 but all bolt guns shoot with 4064 "

    I had a .308 barrel on a bolt gun not to long ago ,would not group with Varget....
    Went in the vault and pulled out some 4320 , drilled holes all the way to 1000 yards.

    As stated above sometime things just need to be changed
     
  18. milanuk

    milanuk Team Savage Gold $$ Contributor

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    Wish I'd known that before I stocked up on a metric butt-load of H4895 a few years back :(

    Mainly hanging onto it for 'blasta' ammo - if all else fails, it *does* work in an awful lot of cartridges.
     
  19. 1shot

    1shot Site $$ Sponsor

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    I am experiencing this exact issue with an AR-10 in 308.
    Loads with newly purchased IMR 4320 didn't shoot, but an old bottle of RL-15 shot knots.
    (Old as in $39.95 for a 5lb. jug)
    I never gave it any thought other than one powder didn't shoot, so I tried another. As an aside H-4895 shot groups the size of a garbage can lid.

    Lloyd
     
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  20. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    I shoot H4895 all the time .I sometimes have "Bad eye days" and can't shoot for crap ,now I have another excuse for those days .
     
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