So what's this 22 Nosler?

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by Hotshot, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. thekriebles

    thekriebles Gold $$ Contributor

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    You are correct Russel. I didn't find the print, but here's an interesting link that shows the Win. 224 E5 about halfway down the page:

    https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/224-winchester/7214
     
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  2. thekriebles

    thekriebles Gold $$ Contributor

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    Here are the apparent specs for the Win. 224E on post # 12 on the link below. It is extremely similar to the 22 Nosler, but there are some slight differences such as shoulder angle and head-to-base of neck:

    Loaded ctg OAL- 2.260
    Case length- 1.760
    Head-.378
    Base (.200 from head/rim) - .422
    Head to shoulder- 1.377
    Shoulder angle- 23 degrees
    Shoulder dia- .406
    Head to base of neck- 1.5573
    Neck dia- .253

    http://gunhub.com/gun-talk/38523-5-56x45-nato-prototypes.html
     
  3. xswanted

    xswanted Gold $$ Contributor

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    Looking at the reamer drawings for the two cases the 204 looks to be longer. Is this case that much fatter?
     
  4. BradY

    BradY

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    I think it will fall away just like the 223WSSM. Why?

    1. 223 case heads don't have that much meat to them and the increased bolt thrust on the rebated head design will make loose primer pockets fast, especially if people try to push them hard. Look at brass life trying to push a 284 over 2900 with 180gr bullets.

    2. The 223rem does a fine job for what it was designed to do.

    3. For faster and better ballistics, why would you not use a 204? Or buy another rifle in 22-250.

    4. You won't see a lot of manufacturers chamber the case in their factory rifles. Just like the WSSM, 17wsm rimfire and 17 hornet. When you get Remington, savage, tikka and sako, browning, weatherby, cz, howa etc all chambering it then it might have a chance. But until then it's a glorified wildcat and that's it. A 221 fireball factory chambering would be a much more lucrative option for those makers in my opinion.

    I like nosler bullets but I don't think this will be a big money earner for them.
     
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  5. HPRE85

    HPRE85

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    A 77 grainer going 3000 fps out of a 20" barrel. Sounds pretty good, for an AR. I don't reload, but that 69 gr TMK loaded in that case might be pretty interesting.
     
  6. fotohunt

    fotohunt Gold $$ Contributor

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    Okay, so realistically I should be able to push an 80 gr ELD match bullet to around 3100-3150 out of a bolt gun with a 26" tube. I have a brand new bartlein 5R 8 twist at my gunsmiths that I was going to have chambered in .223. I'm seriously considering getting the gun chambered in 22 nosler with a long throat to keep the base of the bearing surface above the neck/shoulder junction. My question is after reading the load data from nosler's website for 77's, it seems that h380 offers the highest velocity, and being the slowest of the powders that are listed, probably the lowest pressures. I do have varget, but was wondering opinions on IMR 4451, h414 and Ramshot Tac. I think this would make a great steel cartridge out to 1000 maybe a little further as well ell as a good varmint and deer cartridge with it's lite recoil and high velocity. What say you?

    -Darrell
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
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  7. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Q: Ok, what jumps out at you?

    A: The 22 Nosler is proportioned eerily close to the 6.5 Creedmore.

    If you run the main case dimensions (less rim diameter) it's essentially a ~90% scaled-down Creedmore, with a rebated rim (to get down to the 223 class bolt face). In my opinion this is not by coincidence, Nosler used perhaps the most popular and efficient newer cartridge as their model. And I can't really fault that approach.
    -
     
  8. long40shot

    long40shot Silver $$ Contributor

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    Meh, I'll keep my 22-250.
     
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  9. Kurz

    Kurz

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    Here is the photo of the .224 Winchester E5:

    [​IMG]

    And here is the drawing for the .224 Winchester E5:

    [​IMG]

    It's already SAAMI approved and standardized.

    "The 22 Nosler® is a SAAMI standardized cartridge making for consistent brass and chamber dimensions industry wide. The company will be supporting the new cartridge with Nosler® Brass and ammunition, with plans to chamber their full line of M48 bolt action rifles in 24" barrel configurations in the future. Complete uppers and magazines for 22 Nosler® conversions will be available at major sporting goods retailers nationwide."
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  10. flatlander

    flatlander

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    Looks to me like they just jumped on the PDK bandwagon, only with the rebated casehead so it can be used in rifles with a 222/223 boltface. The Prairie Dog Killer series of cartridges were nothing more than a slightly improved 6.8 SPC case necked down to .20, .22, & 6mm. Silver State made the brass, which I always felt limited the accuracy potential of these rounds, but if you could find some, forming them from Hornady 6.8 brass made for a noticeable improvement.

    I'm thinking this would make a good cartridge to chamber a custom bbl for a Howa Mini action - either going with a fast twist bbl for 80-90gr 22 cal bullets, or necking it up to 6mm in an 8-twist bbl for everything from 60gr to 107gr bullets.
     
  11. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I don't find on the SAAMI web site. Did you?
    -
     
  12. Kurz

    Kurz

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    I haven't seen it on the SAAMI website but that doesn't surprise me. I don't think they keep the website instantly updated. My guess is they wait until they have a few to put up or they update at certain periods of time, like twice a year or even annually. It was the same way when the 26 Nosler was announced.

    Regards.
     
  13. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    There are discrepancies on the Nosler web site WRT case capacities. On the main 22 Nosler page, they state:

    "The 22 Nosler case holds 34.2gr H2O at overflow, and 31.2gr H2O with a 55gr Ballistic Tip® seated to 2.260” OAL"

    https://www.nosler.com/22-nosler/


    But on their "Load Data" under 55-gr Ballistic Tip (seated to OAL 2.260"), they state:

    "CASE HOLDS: 34.7 Gr. WATER"

    https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/22-nosler/


    Clearly, at least one of these three figures is incorrect. Assuming the first statement is correct, then the 34.7 in the second statement is wrong, it should be 31.2 w. 55-gr BT seated.

    However, the first statement cannot be correct if the empty case capacity is 31.2 as the new Shooting Times article suggests. What a mess!

    So ...

    I just talked to "Mike" in Nosler Customer Service, and he agreed (with chagrin) that the case capacity numbers I discussed on 30 January are nonsensical and contradictory. He said he was going to call the webmaster and try to get the "empty" and "bullet seated" capacity figures verified and corrected on the web pages ASAP.
    -
     
  14. Coolhand

    Coolhand

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    .17 Flintstone Super Eyebunger, based on the .22-250 necked down to .17 caliber, has been used by Australian gunsmith Bill Hambly-Clark, Jr. to achieve velocities of 4,798 ft/s (1,462 m/s) out of a 52-inch (1,300 mm) barreled gun.[5]
     
  15. stacy

    stacy 2 TIMOTHY 2 VERSE 15 Silver $$ Contributor

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    NICE!!!!!!:D
     
  16. Nvreloader

    Nvreloader

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    Guys
    FWIW,
    The H2o capacity of the 22 Nosler fired brass,
    in my sample was 37.4 grs, flat meniscus,
    114.7 grs empty, with primer,
    152.1 grs H2o, with primer.

    HTH,

    Tia,
    Don
     
  17. USMCDOC

    USMCDOC

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    I wonder what this lil feller would be like with a 40 degree shoulder and in a bolt gun with 90's
     
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  18. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    With a 40-deg shoulder, it becomes essentially a ~90% scaled-down xx-250 Ackley Improved. (The 6.5 Creedmore is essentially a 6.5-250 AI 30-deg.)
    -
     
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  19. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    I will reiterate BradY's point above regarding brass life. As someone that shoots 90 VLDs in .223 at ~2850 fps with H4895, I have some small experience with poor brass life. I looked into the 22 Nosler when I first heard of it and my immediate impression was that all that extra velocity might well come at the price of poor brass life. With the rebated case head, I would expect similar primer pocket life to a .223 Rem case. If people really start trying to push lighter bullets at the velocities advertised for this cartridge, my guess is they might start seeing what I see with my .223/90 VLD load...perhaps 3-5 firings max.

    IMO - the 22BR would be a much better choice of you really want to push .224 bullets at a much faster velocity than the .223 or .223AI are capable of, without necessarily becoming a barrel-burner. The parent 6BR casehead is the equivalent of .308 Palma brass, which can take much higher pressures than standard large rifle primer .308 brass. Likewise, I'd expect the 22BR can drive the .224 pills at very high velocities without nearly as much potential for expanding the primer pockets as I'd expect with the 22 Nosler case. These are clearly only guesses on my part, so if anyone has any real-world data on the 22 Nosler brass life, it would be interesting to hear how well it holds up over repeated firings.
     
  20. USMCDOC

    USMCDOC

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    Yes, it would be nice to know about the brass life on the 22 Nosler.. as for the 22BR, i have gotten the 90's running around 3200 fps using a 7.2 twist bbl..
     

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