Sighting in 1st Focal Plane Scopes.

Discussion in 'Scopes, Optics, LRFs, Spotters, BoreScopes' started by onelastshot, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. onelastshot

    onelastshot Gold $$ Contributor

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    Just purchased a Schmidt and Bender 3-12x50 Scope, 1st Focal Plane. Mounted the scope on my favorite hunting rifle a Ruger No. 1 in 7x57. After a dozen shots I realized I was in trouble, there was not enough vertical adjustment. After adjusting the dial all the way possible, the rifle shot a half inch to the left.

    Called the American service department for Schmidt & Bender located in Pennsylvania and explained the problem. Long story short, I was advised that a first focal plane scope has only one third the overall adjustment range in comparison to a 2nd focal plane. I was advised that the problem was the rail on my rifle, that it wasn't aligned properly and that I'd have to take it to a gunsmith. Strange, the Leupold scope I'd had on my rifle previously had no problem sighting in. The other option was to purchase a special brand of rings for the Ruger No. 1, with a price tag of $450.00. I know a lot of people that won't pay $450.00 for a scope let alone for rings.

    Something is wrong when you pay over $2,000 for a scope and you find out it lacks the adjustment range to properly sight the scope in.
     
  2. eric32

    eric32 Shooting when I can Gold $$ Contributor

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    You think about using the Burris Signature zee's? i don't know the mounting options for a Ruger No.1 but that might be the way to go.

    i dont think that the adjustment range for a FFP is less than a normal SFP scope. Every scope has a different range, but that seems odd that your rifle wont zero with the SB.

    I am assuming you the hunting scopes and not the PM2?
     
  3. CharlieNC

    CharlieNC

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    I've had no problems zeroing and shooting LR with my ffp scopes, which have major range of adjustment to support the intended purpose. How much adjustment do you have vs the spec?
     
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  4. missed

    missed

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    Your zero stop is getting you. That scope should have 90moa of internal travel. I have not personally set the zero stop on a PM. if that one has set screws for the zero stop, should just have to loosen then, and run the elevation knob up, snug the screws back up, then set your zero. I have rifles with 0 to 40moa bases, there is a old S&B on one of the ones with a 40 moa base has plenty of travel, to have a 100 yard zero and run out to a mile.

    Yeah don't put a S&B in a cheap ass set of rings.
     
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  5. Rob01

    Rob01

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    FFP has nothing to do with it. I have been using FFP scopes for years and never an issue zeroing and they have plenty of travel depending on the scope of course.

    What scope do you have exactly?
     
  6. onelastshot

    onelastshot Gold $$ Contributor

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    The scope is the Schmidt& Bender Zenith 3-12x50.
     
  7. onelastshot

    onelastshot Gold $$ Contributor

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    The scope doesn't have zero stop and the rings aren't cheap ass rings, they're specifically made for the Ruger No.1 and are made by Ruger.
     
  8. jds holler

    jds holler Gold $$ Contributor

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    Are you saying that both elevation and windage adjustments are insufficient?
     
  9. onelastshot

    onelastshot Gold $$ Contributor

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    The elevation is fine, it's just the vertical or windage that lacks sufficient adjustment.
     
  10. JRS

    JRS Silver $$ Contributor

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    How much adjustment does the scope actually have? The specs state +/- 4.5 MRAD.

    Edit: Are you certain the rings you have are not made for the Model 77? Are the rings numbered the same?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  11. ballistic64

    ballistic64

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    Don't think it is the scope. I could be mistaken, but from what I'm seeing, that scope should have about 26" of travel either side of being centered at 100 yds.
     
  12. Turbulent Turtle

    Turbulent Turtle F-TR competitor

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    I think you mean the horizontal or windage that lacks adjustment.

    I will agree with others here, it's most probably not the scope. Something is wrong with the rings or the mount. If this is a new rifle, you might want to talk to Ruger.
     
  13. missed

    missed

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    I wasn't talking about the Ruger rings, I was talking about putting that scope in the bushing style rings.

    I don't know what has you then. My S&B has a zero stop that I had to loosen, to get it to a 100 yard zero.
     
  14. Turbulent Turtle

    Turbulent Turtle F-TR competitor

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    This thread is a perfect example of a failure to communicate. The OP scrambles his message by using incorrect terminology to explain his problem and confusion goes from there. After rereading the thread, it is now apparent the OP is misusing the term "vertical". His scope is not running out of vertical adjustment, he just can't get his "vertical" stadia wire to be on target. In other words, he's running out of horizontal (side to side) adjustment, So zero stop has nothing to do with this.

    I have a Ruger M77 with the integral Ruger rings, the ones that clamp onto the receiver. For normal distances, they work great. They are solid and hold onto the receiver quite well. When I converted my M77 to a long range 1000yard rifle, these unique rings became a problem. The riflescope I had did not have enough elevation or vertical adjustment to get to 1000 yards using these rings. Burris makes a Ruger-to-Weaver adapter and that's what I used along with Burris Signature Zee rings with the inserts to get to 1000 yards. Worked like a champ.

    The OP's problem is that he believes his riflescope is not able to be adjusted horizontally to get the vertical stadia wire on the target. My belief is this is not a problem with the riflescope itself, but rather the way it is mounted on the rifle. Earlier I forgot to ask if he had mounted another scope on it successfully, but rereading the thread shows that he did have a Leupold on it before with no issue. So either the scope is bent (unlikely) or the rings are not mounted properly on the action. I would loosen everything and make sure everything is fitting properly and then slowly tighten the screws on the rings going front and back one turn each time to make sure everything stays straight.

    If in the end, the riflescope is still way off, the Burris Ruger-to-Weaver adapters with Signature rings and judicious use of the inserts can probably sure the problem.

    Let me just say that if the scope is off by that much, it should be possible to see that the scope does not line up with the barrel looking at it from above. My neighbor had a rifle with that problem, it would shoot 2 feet to the left at 100 yards, with the scope centered mechanically. Looking at the scope and rifle from above, you could actually see the scope leaning right.

    A good trick to use is to get a yardstick and line up on the riflescope from one end and let the other end extend over the barrel. That will show you something. You can also do this with just the rings in place and set a cleaning rod in the rings and see if it's parallel over the barrel.
     
  15. Spike A

    Spike A Silver $$ Contributor

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    I agree on checking rings... If you happen to have a scope mounting kit or know someone who does mine came with two pointed bars.. Mount one in each ring and see if they line up to each other... Then if they do i would do like previously stated and make sure they line up with barrel..
     
  16. Zero333

    Zero333 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I'm curious if the Leupold you were using was near the middle of the windage adjustment when zeroed. This might explain a little and give you a better idea of what could be wrong.
     
  17. flatlander

    flatlander

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    I had a Ruger 77 hvy bbl in 25-'06 30+years ago; using the factory rings mounted in the integral bases, the rifle shot so far to the right that the Leupold 3x9 scope couldn't be adjusted to zero the windage. Ran into the same problem while trying to zero my brother-in-law's Win M70 in 7mm WSM probably 10yrs ago. So it's not that uncommon for the factory to turn out a receiver with the scope base holes (or in the case of the Ruger - integral bases) misaligned.
     
  18. FatBoy

    FatBoy

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    my buddy has a cheap savage Axis 7-08 that has the same problem. I tried to tell him about the Leupold dovetail windage adjustable base as well as a one piece weaver style with Burris signature rings but he's fighting it. Still shoots like 12" to the right with windage maxed out. WTF do I know about setting up a rifle after 18 years as a LRHM? Guess after my performance at ORSA easier this month, that's a fair question.....

    edit: I am not trying to imply anything about the OP, just my $.02 that this is a fairly common issue with limited travel hunting style scopes and misaligned bases.

    edit2: OP, how small is the reticle at 3 or 4x? Do you think you'll be able to see it in low light? I assume you went this route for wide open, longer shot western game, not treestand or box style hunting?
     
  19. cr30378

    cr30378

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    Take a few pictures and let us see them. Maybe helpful.
     
  20. Clay Moyers

    Clay Moyers

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    The focal plane of the reticle should have no bearing on the amount of adjustment in a particular scope.
     

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