Should F-class shooters be required to pull targets?

Discussion in 'Competition Forum (All Calibers)' started by Mozella, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. Mozella


    Jan 27, 2015
    I'm wondering about how F-class competitors feel about hiring people to pull targets for them.

    The PGA requires golfers (and spectators alike) to be fit enough to walk the course without use of a golf cart. Should there be a similar rule for pulling targets; i.e. if you shoot you also must pull?

    I think pulling targets is an integral part of an F-class match just as shooting from the prone position is. Frankly, as a fat, old-guy I'd rather shoot F-class from a bench without having to pull targets, but I accept that shooting prone and pulling targets is part of the game and I happen to think that it should be.

    Should people who can afford to hire target pullers be permitted to do so? Do you think that the shooter who stays on the firing line sitting in front of a fan while he studies wind shifts has an advantage over the competitor down at the pits sweating like a weight lifter in an out-of-control sauna?

    If you are in the group who thinks that paying a target puller is OK, would you also feel comfortable if a fellow competitor also hired a skilled marksman to fire his rifle for him? ;) Just kidding about that last part, but you get the point.

    338 dude, Joe R and Taildrag15X like this.
  2. Kakumba


    Nov 26, 2014
    Having shooters pulling targets seems to be a US thing, from what I can tell. Certainly its unusual down in my part of the world. Personally, I like having the markers as a separate entity. As long as the markers are good, it means that everyone should get a pretty similar experience, not like if you get someone who doesnt want to be down in the pits, and someone else gets an experienced shooter who is trying to give the best service possible. Also, its not about who can afford to pay a marker, its included in your entry fee, all equal. So if you paid your entry fee to shoot, then you just focus on shooting, and that side of things.

    I guess its quite different depending on how things were run when you started shooting. Like I said, in some parts of the world, shooters pulling targets is the exception, and so thats what I am used to. Also, I dont know about other places, but we struggle enough to get shooters in to the sport, putting more requirements on them to pull targets isnt going to make that any easier.

    EDIT: Also, here in NZ, electronic targets have become common place, which negates this somewhat.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
    SDDasher likes this.
  3. B Nettesheim

    B Nettesheim Silver $$ Contributor

    Jan 13, 2016
    I can think of several shooters in their "golden years" who i enjoy thier presence and company, some of them have paid pullers for the match. I would not like to see anyone leave this great sport because they cant pull a target!!! I will do everything possible to get these guys to the line to compete.
    Brian N
    500Stroker, jvw2008, 338 dude and 5 others like this.
  4. Kings X

    Kings X

    Jan 22, 2012
    I am one of the guys in the "golden years".
    I get a paid puller whenever I can. I cannot hear. Most of the times I cannot hear the pit officer's command to "pull number xx". I is not fair to my shooter on the line to have to put up with poor pit service.
    I also wait until someone else fires the first shot, since I rarely hear the command to fire.
    I have thought about quitting the game. Hard to do after 50 years of competing.
    I look forward to electronic targets. Maybe score keeping for my shooter will be better.
    I have made a lot of friends over the pass 50 years. I would miss them.
    Redd, 338 dude, hpshooter and 3 others like this.
  5. ngb1787

    ngb1787 Silver $$ Contributor

    Feb 2, 2016
    I have a feeling in the next 10 years or there will be so many electronic target that no one will have the option to pull. We currently use electronics, I would shoot a lot less if I had to return to the pits.
    Mark Self likes this.
  6. Taildrag15X


    Dec 27, 2007
    I started this argument in the 90's shooting prone....I'm old school, started High power at age 12 with a 1903 Springfield, everyone pulled targets and scored, once I started shooting F-Class in 2004 it started again.

    Yes you should have to pull Targets and Score, it's part of the Compete in the same conditions means being tired from pulling Targets or moving to firing points, not having a stand-in or body double, you are the Competitor.

    I pull my own Targets and have to use a cane to walk or stand (one reason I can't compete in Service Rifle) if you can't pull a Target due to Medical issues, then get a waiver from the NRA.

    I've Protested many times over a stand-in puller as they shouldn't be pulling the Target of the person paying them.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  7. FatBoy


    Dec 30, 2004
    If everyone has the opportunity to have paid pullers, it's acceptable. If not, no one should have paid puller UNLESS they have a medical dispensation from the NRA or an agreement with the match director in advance, due to some form of medical issue.

    I am with the shooters above. The issue is fatigue. Everyone must be giving the same opportunity to suffer through hot pits or they have a clear advantage. Don't want to pull targets? Go shoot benchrest.

    That said, I too would like to see electronic targets take over. If for nothing else, the speed in which a match can be shot and there is no damn whining about pit service.
    arkcomatt, Redd, spclark and 3 others like this.
  8. JBO

    JBO Silver $$ Contributor

    Jul 2, 2012
    SBS and Taildrag15X like this.
  9. milanuk

    milanuk Gold $$ Contributor

    Nov 23, 2004
    While I agree with this in concept... Do you think its fair to the person on the target next door to get their target pulled by someone else's paid puller who's starting to wear down at the end of the day...? Six one way, half a dozen the other. I do think its B.S. when people pay the puller extra for especially 'good' target service. I'm sure it starts out sounding like nothing more than tipping a server at the restaurant for a job well done... but it skirts dangerously close to 'buying points' in a hurry. Fixed rate, period.
  10. lawrence97

    lawrence97 Silver $$ Contributor

    Dec 11, 2007
    I think we should all be afforded a paid puller. I do respect if you have a condition that prevents you from pulling targets but a lot of times I see competitors that look very alive and well. They are able to carry the ton of gear to and from their vehicles without help, socialize back and forth down the line, smoke, joke, eat some good lunch, take a break in the shade, watch the winds and how other competitors are doing.
    Shooting and pulling over several match days does get old and tiring and we should all be afforded that opportunity. It's also a good time to socialize and meet some good folks. Or you might get lucky and pull a target for someone that just broke a record!
  11. savagedasher


    Jul 25, 2012
    I would think when you sign up you should be ask to pay or pull . The entry could be adjusted by early entry . Larry
    hepburn45110 likes this.
  12. Kyle Schultz

    Kyle Schultz Gold $$ Contributor

    Mar 1, 2009
    At the 2016 Lapua Regional in Houston, paid pullers were allowed. Some shooters paid the fee. There were 4 relays and so by design there were to be 2 pullers in the pits working together on a target. A paid puller failed to show up, so the pit boss takes my partner to pull that target. So everyone else is 2 to a target but a couple of us are pulling targets by ourselves. And guess who gets yelled out for poor pit service.
  13. lawman29


    Jun 20, 2013
    At the just completed Montana Long Range Championship in Missoula, Jamey had a couple of junior shooters that were available to pull targets so they could make some cash to support their junior small bore and high power efforts. I signed up for the service. Libby was our puller on Saturday, she was 14 years old and weighed maybe 100 lbs soaking wet. There were 4 relays, 800 unlimited sighters, 900 2 sighters, 1k 2 sighters and 1k unlimited sighters, with 65 rounds for record (~85 total per shooter). By my calculation she pulled at minimum 340 targets for the day...and did a great job! After all of your comments I feel terrible about taking advantage of my fellow bad I'm going to take advantage of it again next year if there are junior shooters available!!!
  14. savagedasher


    Jul 25, 2012
    I don't shoot f class but if I did $ 20 .00 would be a good place to start . Larry
  15. ryanjay11

    ryanjay11 Gold $$ Contributor

    Feb 1, 2010
    effendude likes this.
  16. 1shot


    Feb 19, 2006
    I agree with several points. If you are paying a puller, they will be pulling for someone else, and another puller will be pulling yours as arraigned by the pit official. Secondly, I know of a shooter that served this country proudly in times of war, and was disabled as a result.
    He still competes regularly because he LOVES it.
    Rest assured he isn't a safety hazard, but his disability makes it a burden to other shooters that care more about winning than everything else. So he pays for a puller or doesn't go to the match.
    If that example doesn't count for something, then nothing does.

    D-4297, Snuggie, Dgd6mm and 2 others like this.
  17. savagedasher


    Jul 25, 2012
    If your paying for a puller the pit official can say if he has a job or not. . Larry
  18. deadwooddick


    Feb 9, 2008
    A bit of history… Pit pulling or target marking duty has been a part of target shooting for at least 500 years, but it is only very recently that shooters have had to pull their own targets.

    From NRA FullBore RuleBook—Squadded Firing (typical at local matches)

    In individual matches, competitors are assigned to firing points in squads. Competitor A fires first and the last competitor in the squad is assigned scoring duties for the first competitor. While the competitor A is firing, competitor B is in preparation period. When competitor A completes the string, competitor A moves back off the firing line and competitor B moves to the firing line and begins to fire.… This rotation continues until all competitors have completed their strings… (Squadded firing works best with dedicated target pullers and a large number of competitors).

    Don't see a "requirement" to pull targets but understand the currently accepted "need." Except in cases of "real" disability.
    Taildrag15X likes this.
  19. Rope2horns

    Rope2horns Norm Harrold Silver $$ Contributor

    Mar 25, 2012
    If it allows others to participate that otherwise normally wouldn't/couldn't I'm all for it,,,,,If your lazy or feel it gives you a competitive edge that's on you....I'm going to pull my own target till I cant, then hopefully I can afford to pay someone so I can continue to do what I enjoy.
  20. damoncali

    damoncali Bullet Maker Site $$ Sponsor

    Mar 30, 2011
    No. For a lot of reasons.

    1- Older or disabled shooters shouldn't feel excluded. Even the existence of such a rule relegates them to a sort of asterisk class
    2- what does pulling targets have to do with shooting?
    3- Paid target pullers (boy scouts, etc) can really speed up a big match, especially if it's required.

    I remember paying pullers at Quantico about 15 years ago for XTC matches. It was pure luxury, and well worth the $20. You could get a lot of shooters across the course very quickly and those kids did pretty darn well.

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